Dungeons have become a soulless, anti-social dopamine farm

my experience: they messed up the power curve post dragonflight and people were overpowered the entire way through current content, which is absolutely trivial.

this impacts slower casters/poor movespeed the most. i ran a dungeon as affliction warlock and didn’t even get to cast a spell once. then they nerfed it, and i’d get my spells off but everything would die before i would do meaningful damage.

“rarely getting to end without getting upset” nah

the popular macro tools aren’t against TOS because they use the /cast and /castsequence functionality.

they do amount to 1 button macros that you just spam, and they offer an advantage over the blizzard macro interface because they have more space for things and not a limited character count.

they are no different than blizz macros that just have every ability in a /cast chain that only stops when something is on cooldown. however, all classes have procs and damage windows so you make multiple macros so your logic is to make 2 macros, 1: “if effect x is not up press button 1” and 2: “if effect x is not up press button 2.”

silly for PVE, as a skilled player is better than hekili or any rotation addon because the rotation addon does not take your gear into account, they use simcraft based on endgame bis. it would be impossible to dynamically reparse a rotation based on every single gear combination. the closest i imagine they could get is via stat % calculation but even that is not going to be accurate. X haste is different than X.75 haste.

in pvp however, there are many classes that can spam 3 buttons for optimal buffs/dmg rotation, especially burst classes like a feral druid.

I analyzed a log and a person who was hopping around in circles perfectly “pressed” 11 actions in 7 seconds. 4 of them were non-gcd buttons press at the exact same time. that’s 1 /cast macro. the other 7 were cast sequenced in order.

the entire point is to be “mindless” you want to do the same thing every time, not “think ok press 1 then 2 then 3 then … 11”

And that was done away with because it led to classes being excluded and certain buffs / builds being not viable unless you wanted to suffer wiping and crying by default.

The mantra at the time was bring the player, not the class. Yet classes had exclusive buffs that had clear advantages. Remember the challenge dungeons in MoP? Remember how a group stealth rogue was required to compete at the progression bleeding edge?

That trickles down into how easy it is at lower levels.

No, the content was already solved and classic is a terrible slog so everyone optimized to reduce that. Rose-tinted glasses aside, few wanted to actually do “real progression.”

ah yes the not anti-social solo runs.

the problem is the tolerance for what “socializing” is is antithetical to “accessibility.”

They destroyed the reliance on others except for niches in the game, ie, if you want that you join a guild to do that. But the game changed because the people who wanted to do that dwindled away (got old).

i got my nostalgia fill and fond memories brought into sharp focus with season of discovery.

I’ll take matchmaking any day over sitting in town whispering people to join a group, and being rejected or not, for hours.

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Gosh I feel bad saying this but it’s true - people have changed.

Unfortunately, the current soulless dungeon experience you (OP) describe fits the expectations of the majority of players running them. Human culture has changed hugely in the last 15 years, and the social majority has been replaced with an anti-social majority.

I’m not saying this with any blame or accusation - I’m only stating my observations, and I am not excluding myself when I say in 2024, folks don’t answer their doors. They don’t answer their phones. They cancel plans they never intended to keep in the first place, and both sides are relieved. They live largely online for work time and not-work time, and a majority of social activity occurs there, without verbal conversation, just like this forum. And despite all of this, there are still strangers everywhere offering their opinions about everything. And so, privacy and anonymity have become the number one concerns for many folks, and this is reflected in their gaming habits: Other players, just like other people, are a nuisance unless they’re “my” people.

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Thankfully they aren’t all like that. Had a great City of Echoes heroic yesterday where the tank didn’t overpull. They pulled a decent amount but actually STOPPED if things got hairy. What a novel concept.

They have always been the norm. The only thing that has changed is that we used to think a Deadmines run was INCREDIBLY fast when it was under an hour.

That’s all that has changed. Ya’ll who have this weird obsession with hating on M+ need to get over yourselves.

but your observations are miniscule yet you feel fine in generalizing “all humans.”

Most people aren’t shut-ins that are chained to the computer with 0 IRL social human contact.

There are just enough (and they’re absolutely pandered to via commerce) to feel like that’s some huge community when it is the vast, vast minority.

The effect that you’re feeling is in the early days of wow and other mmos, there were a lot of IRL tabletop players who loved the idea to bring that social group online because it was far more convenient.

Those people are by and large long gone from online play.

the younger generation on average didn’t have that, because they didn’t need it, and at the end result they don’t value it.

there will never be another mmo as big as wow was that caters only to the shut-in online only set, because that’s a fraction of the population.

i mean, this is evidenced by people going out for midnight launch events to gamestop to purchase physical copies and turn launch into a party.

people today want to check out with paypal and install asap to be playing the second it launches. it’s just convenient, and so stores don’t have those launch parties anymore because no real audience.

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Man I hate to break it to ya, but this has been the case for many years. Its been a hot topic in classic ever since classic launched. A tug of war between people who want to be “social” in dungeons and people who want to join, win, and leave.

It’s foundational to the RDF debate thats been the focus of classic forums for years as well.

Social gameplay must happen between friends and guildies. I’m not sure why people dont lean into that experience with their guild and friends, if they are so keen to have it.

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kind of seems like you might be playing poorly. i haven’t had that experience at all.

You can thank M+ for that. The entire game outside of high keys and heroic and mythic raiding is a soulless affair.

Just go play Classic shouldn’t be the answer.

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This is a fact. Play any online game these days, and you will notice that despite everyone in the world owning a headset, no one plays with mic on.

The novelty of cutting it up with randoms online while people are blurting slurs and being belligerent is long gone. They all say theyre on discord, but I think the truth is that their headsets dont need to come with mics these days.

M+ is already dead, irrelevant content.

I love when people claim a certain group of people is an extreme minority or majority but then present zero evidence (as if the evidence even existed in the first place).

Nobody cares about M+ tbh. Whoever still cares about M+ is pathetic…

because true classic had everyone in a single server communicating and building social rep and friendships OUTSIDE of their guild and friends, and that was part of the hook. it’s how guilds would have hundreds of active players. and drama. so much drama.

if that person you invited to the run was cool, you’d invite them to the guild or play with them repeatedly. not xxdsxsza-someotherserver who you will never meet again.

And, those guilds were 100% tasked with being responsible for the entire game’s enjoyment on the backs of the organizers who probably enjoyed that from RL dnd interaction or managing guilds in other mmos.

rose tinted glasses but a lot of people wasted a lot of time in a game they couldn’t win because their guild had issues, so it was changed eventually.

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This was the major problem. The first dungeon I stepped into in TWW, the tank was already god mode and we were already speed running. Often times the tank was at the first pack before I fully zoned in. I couldn’t even take a second to look at the loot table for the first boss.

But then, you have the first room of Cinderbrew Meadery, and the tanks try that :joy:

Right. My bad. They’re chained to their phones. :stuck_out_tongue:

And of course I’m generalizing because 100% of humans aren’t the same, but there is still a majority and to put this back into a Warcraft perspective, I think it’s certainly true that a majority of players in dungeons don’t want to wipe, laugh, learn and make friends. They want a seamless, flawless, silent run without any exchange of words with the other players.

If I can do a dungeon in 10 minutes, why would I want to take 20 minutes when it’s the 10th time through?

Do it a few times with followers if you want to smell the roses.

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True classic also happened to be when everyone thought playing with thousands of others in the same game was the coolest thing. It was IRL chat with a game.

The internet isnt novel anymore for gaming and that entire mentality has worn off largely.

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Because that would mean they have to actually put forth an effort which a lot of people don’t want to to.

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wait until season 1 starts lmao. Youre pissing outside the bucket right now friend

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I think the most common thing is like 2 or 3 people who can’t shake the wow addiction in a discord, hitting the limit that wow sets up for those size groups and dipping out of wow. was a lot more fun when it was like 50 people and blobs of friends with variety. we still talk about the time one was drunk and rambling on about personal things to dozens of people hilariously…

today? big diff from my vanilla guild of 300+ people. i join some raid’s discord just to hear them be obnoxious with 0 useful comms 99% of the time.

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