Lol… Had to plan on wotlk and cata? Those 5 man’s were just as brain dead.
In TBC, you actually had to hard cc and Mark things for sheep in heroics.
So, please… If you had to plan a lot in wotlk and cata 5 man’s… Just uninstall. You are a joke.
There’s no reason to go slow, no boss or mob is actually challenging enough where you need to stop and think about what you’re doing. You just let the tank round up the entire room, pull the boss and kill everything in about 10 seconds. Its a waste of time to go slow lmao
They kind of have been since Wrath.
Well-said!
Dungeon’s haven’t really been the same since Wrath except for in a select few instances. I mean look at the beloved BRD and compare it to the vast majority of dungeons out there.
A dungeon with over 10 bosses, multiple ways to approach it, secret bosses etc.
It would be nice if we got that at least on occasion, and no, mega dungeon’s don’t count. Mega Dungeons may have more bosses but at the end of the day they are still a linear experience.
i mean they have to insult the m+ players as the alternative is there bad and refuse to get better.
i gotta be the odd man out here cause there are dungeons that even with a huge bump in io i still dont want to run. like i hated halls so once i got the teleport to there i had no reason to go back even on a alt which could have a bis drop. i also pug keys cause i enjoy them but run with friends cause its fun to push with them. or the wipes we have are hilarious
“have become”? they’ve always been that
Time is the only currency you have no control over, use it wisely when its your turn to die you die!
Thankfully Delves and Follower dungeons exist
I really wish they would design some optional, EverQuest-style dungeons that require this level of CC, pathing and planning. Dungeons that could never be made into M+ later, but only exist for fun, achievements and exploration.
Follower dungeons and delves for me, thanks. Unless some friends want to do some dungeons together.
They need to take a page from Diablo 4… Remove the timer from mythics… The timer is the issue here…
I totally agree with the Op… It isn’t about running them at a snails pace… It is about actually playing the game… This game was never meant to be a rat race…
Sadly this issue breaks apart the community… It is why I won’t pug and only run with my guild… I am a tank so enjoy your long queue times… More people might pug if others weren’t so rude and in such a hurry…
My friends and I run dungeons while we hang out in discord, talk about our days, joke about each other’s mistakes (all good-natured), discuss strats, discuss goals for the season… WoW is what you make of it, like most of life.
Code for “they’re better at an easy game than me so I’m mad” basically.
Dungeons were always the same, just before streaming you didn’t know how terrible you were at the game.
After streaming people realized you never needed cc or anything, just group them up and mow them down.
Streaming did not change how dungeons were run.
How dungeons were designed and run changed which made them more attractive to people for streaming purposes.
This is understandable to a point… it’s only a “speed run” if your group is able to keep up and in particular, if your healer can sustain the amount of incoming damage you have. It’s also only a “speed run” if the tank is keeping aggro on things. I’ve seen too many instances in random groups where the tank keeps going but leaves a mobs to run loose and get the dps/heals, or pull too many packs for the healer to keep up with and then the group wipes, repeatedly. The last time that happened in a random group I was in, two consecutive healers ended up leaving. All of this wastes time, and creates a negative experience. When I’m tanking, I keep an almost constant flow of chain pulls and will often pull multiple packs, but I also monitor health bars of my group and how well the healer is keeping up with the damage on my character. If I, or the group, ends up with our HP at 50% or lower, I adjust how I approach my pulls, or will check in with the healer to see if they are comfortable with the pacing. It’s considerate, effective, and maintains a very close pace to the people who mindlessly aggro everything up to the first boss. The mobs you pull all have to be killed anyways, and many AoEs “deal reduced damage beyond five targets”, so having 30 mobs on me at once doesn’t really shave much time.
Dungeons were always the same, just before streaming you didn’t know how terrible you were at the game.
I assure you that isn’t the case. At cata launch it took just about everything in a groups toolkit to take down a single-pull.
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Don’t higher difficulties unlock this week?
The low difficulties may be TOO low, though, if you can behave like complete maniacs and get away with it.
Because it was undertuned so badly it’s trivial even in greens.
They never should have listened to the people who whined about Cata dungeons. Gear and skill should have been the answer, not detuning all the puggable content to complete faceroll levels.
There’s no sense of progression in gearing if every pack is worthless unthreatening garbage even before you’re geared.
A big reason is down to how it’s designed. Pre-WoD dungeons are very simplistic by modern standards, so the devs wanted to make dungeons harder. And to do so, they created M+, whose purpose is to challenge players. And how to challenge them? By doing mass pulls and forcing them to react to 4-5 mechanics simultaneously at once in a key level where letting those mechanics go off can wipe your group, as well as tight dps checks.
Anything below M+ difficulty wise is an afterthought. That’s why M0 and below are so easy, and people rush pull them because they can.
BC era design would be unfeasible for M+ purposes: it would lead to the samey single-pack-at-time pulls where the only real limitator is your gear, skill and patience. They would also need to make dungeon mobs way more complex and with more mechanics to provide any sort of challenge to M+ folks.
The idea of the “can mass pull” design is that it’s freely usable, tweak-able and provides a challenge to beat on time for M+ players without impacting M0 and below players.
Because of M+ and because difficult dungeon design limitations, there are zero chances we will ever go back to bc era dungeons.