I agree 100%, esp since when we had 40 man raiding we didnt have all these addons and weak aruas that pkay the game for us. I would love to see any of these retail players even attempt to do a 40 man raid without addons. I know if it wasnt for addons i wouldnt even be able to play and im not ashamed to say it
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Actual vanilla had some pretty broken addons that played the game for you like decursive. Blizz has slowly over the years removed addon capability as mod authors have gotten better.
And Era is sitting there for anyone that wants to do 40 man. It’s a fun game, but hard isn’t a word those of us in Era would use to describe it.
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I certainly feel this way too, but imo it’s a many-pronged problem.
-M+ dungeons don’t require people to know those dungeons on normal/heroic first, so many players are just ignorant of mechanics.
-Dungeons (and raids) over the years are designed with addons in mind, so it’s an arms race between the two. Addons tell you when and where to go, so devs have to get creative and try to design ‘around’ said addons, and you can feel it in the raids. It just becomes a bloat of design. Stuff has to be overly complex otherwise people who use addons will complain fights are boring. It’s either 1% or 100%, a joke or very difficult, with little in-between.
-Visuals that just plain suck, stuff that’s hard to see, and just poor readability in general. That’s kinda why the addons exist to begin with. The game can be incredibly jank.
And these issues kinda spillover into PvP as well, especially Rated. You kinda need some addons to even attempt to climb in any serious capacity.
I miss when WoW didn’t rely so heavily on addons. I prefer my games as they are out of the box. That’s just how I choose to play them.
Yawn 
dont you get bored of being so wrong all the time?
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Up to mythic Broodtwister requires zero addons lol.
Do people need an add on to not stand in super obvious and telegraphed bad?
I’d really love to see someone doing those with no addons, I’d watch.
Hell, if I saw more people doing PvE without addons, I’d likely attempt to do some myself.
Always felt like the odd one out because I don’t have WeakAuras, etc.
Not too much of a fan of the sets this season though, so motivation isn’t high.
Liked the hunter sets most, and the PvP colors were my favorites so I went and got those.
BrM Monk is my tank of choice, and the monk set this season just isn’t for me.
Resto Shaman is my preferred healer, and the shaman set isn’t too crazy either.
There’s nothing on any of those fights that require anything. It’s just variations of move out of telegraphs. The fights are also completely on rails timer wise so a stopwatch and a sticky note would be enough to manage healing cds. Bliz don’t really do % phase bosses anymore.
Honestly the only addon that feels like its necessary this tier is ovinax assigning people marks. The rest is just nice to have while you’re learning but you ultimately discard / ignore once you have the muscle memory built up.
As for my UI, I could build something functionally similar with WoW’s standards and typically have to for alpha testing. It’s just ugly and mismatched and not as compact.
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When it’s three or four different bads happening all at once or in quick succession, yes, otherwise they wouldn’t bother with the addons in the first place.
Not sure why people act like we’re dealing with Classic mechanics when add-ons come up.
Everyone proceeds to say “I could do this without any of it” and then keeps all of it going anyhow. The reason that is the case is because whether they could or not it’s easier with. Your assertion that nothing requires any of this until X, Y, or Z encounter doesn’t change the fact that you and everyone else is still going to run those add-ons for convenience all the way to X, Y, or Z encounter and beyond.
Throw macros into the equation and most of us would be performing at a deficit compared to our modified and supplemented experience.
Do I think this makes those things bad or a crutch? No, they are basically necessary to take this game from frustrating to entirely manageable.
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smashes the heart button so hard the screen cracks
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a good example is last boss in boralus. after they removed the knock back its way more chill.
too many abilities in this game affects your character and its pretty bad.
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there’s not a single complex dungeon mechanic, except maybe if you wanna count the tank dispell on EDNA
there’s literally up to 3 mechanics per pack, pretty much always
- don’t stand in the bad, literally in every encounter, it’s so baseline it’s no different from pressing your buttons - it doesn’t matter what form they take, you see the ground change color you move
- usually some kinda interrupt as the only mechanic you truly need to divert brainpower to, which you can alternatively handle with stops
- somewhat rarely large unavoidable raidwide damage that you COULD press a defensive for (entirely optional in 10s or below)
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Same can be said for the last boss in Echoes. If they take one mechanic out the fight would become chill for everyone. They can draw this mechanic out of a hat for all I care it would have the same end result.
The thing is that we aren’t talking about single mechanics so that’s good. It’s the overlap of mechanics that causes complexity and frustration.
Quoting the whole thing so more people get a chance to read.
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What game?
What boss(es) are too complex? Maybe I’m just forgetting them but they all seem pretty tame.
Maybe Erudax? I wouldn’t necessarily say he’s complex though, just visual clarity on his fight is doo doo.
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Ironically, one of the tyrannical complaints over the years is the bosses are too simple to last 5+ minutes with their HP scaling and they turn into a boring slog.
a lot of my frustration isnt about complexity, it has to do more with the level of uncertainty when it comes to the boundaries of the various mechanics. you can never know the definitive line where the actual attack ends. so it feels more like I just got lucky rather than I understood and execute the mechanic well.
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I think they need to make more dungeons like we had in Legion & BfA if they want good M+ choices. They were punishing, but the trash didn’t have 3-4 mechanics either.
Their remakes have been hit or miss…I can’t wait for them to rotate Mechagon, Court of Stars & Tazavesh back in!
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What addon “helps” someone avoid 4 different telegraphed mechanics? Genuinely curious. An addon thats going to do that sounds like it would add more chaos than help anything.
DBM is great for the first 2 weeks, then after that, everything is engrained and it kind of becomes useless.
I dont imagine people running the same content for the umpteenth time are still relying on an addon to tell them to avoid the swirlies of death. I may be wrong.
Theres hardly ever a “dodge this which puts you in the path of this, and then youvr got the choice to take mechanic 1 to the face or deal with mechanic 3s overly harsh dot in place of dodging 2”
Second boss in Ara-Kara is as close as i can think of, and even then its very simple when you realize one mechanic follows the tank, which entirely negates the above comment.
Tank faces mechanic away from group
Group side steps mechanic while avoiding circles. The end
Even last boss in ara-kara is:
One mechanic. Wait a few seconds. Second mechanic. Wait a few seconds. Third mechanic. Waitna few seconds. Intermission. Repeat
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