So there’s a lot of discussion as to the impacts of Dungeon Finder. Everything from it making content more accessible to more players, allowing people to play how they want to it ruining the social fabric of the game. I’m going to suggest a completely different solution, and one that allows us to test these claims that people have held for years.
The general sentiment tends to be something along the lines of “Players will choose the path of least resistance” - i.e. levelling through dungeons is quicker and easier, and so people will do that over other options. I agree with this in theory, whilst I don’t agree with the implication that other content is more enjoyable.
WITH THAT IN MIND MY SOLUTION:
-Add Dungeon Finder
-Increase XP from questing so that it is faster than dungeon levelling. Not so much faster that doing dungeons compared to questing would be terrible. Like 20% faster. Enough that the path of least resistance is objectively questing (or world content. XP from gathering nodes could also help here)
-Remove the bonus XP for completing a dungeon (this would have to tie in to the xp difference between questing and dungeons NOT on top of it)
If people decide to quest, hey. The world will be more full (It’s more full now than it was before the XP boost… I personally don’t see that lasting, though). If not, well path of least resistance argument kinda goes out the window right?
This doesn’t even touch on the actual issue with Random Dungeon Finder…
Cross-Realm queues need to be either removed, or only after a noticeable delay like 30minutes. If you don’t address Cross-Realm, you’re not even looking at the concerns most people have.
This isn’t the complaint. The complaint is that it will reduce social interaction (which is nonsense to a degree) but Cross-Realm queues will definitely make people less interested in using dungeons as a social environment instead of just an XP and loot machine.
The only compromise that needs to happen, is removing (or limiting) cross-realm queues. Everything else is just trying to add gravy to convince people.
Cross realm isn’t inherently a part of Dungeon Finder. I don’t agree that it is the issue people make of it, but sure. Let’s “solve” that by having it prioritize people on your server.
It’s the key reason why there’s so much hatred of RDF. People choosing to level in dungeons or quests is a nothing issue especially now that they’ve nerfed boosting. RDF is a negative for boosters, because more people will be able to do the dungeons properly and enjoy their time.
Your proposal is to increase experience gains from quests, which would technically include dungeon quests. How is that going to make questing the path of least resistance when you have to travel, and all that fun jazz, when I can quest AND do RDF at the same time since RDF will almost always provide more exp per hour.
“I can quest AND do RDF at the same time”
Right. So RDF doesn’t take away from the world then.
Don’t boost dungeon quests then. Problem solved. I’m sorry if I didn’t go into enough details to get my point across, but my suggestion is “Make world content the path of least resistance, and offer people dungeon finder. This way we can prove that people just prefer dungeons”
Again, this isn’t making it the path of least resistance. You are trying to make questing more appealing to players. I’m not sure how you’re not understanding this.
I guess I’m not sure what path of least resistance refers to if its not “This is the fastest way to level”. I’m just trying to find a world we can all enjoy.
“The path of least resistance” literally means the path that has the least resistance. RDF = Press “I” and queue up. Questing = Travel time, kill time, looting certain items, quest mob/item competition with other players, etc.
Just because you increase exp by 20% doesn’t mean questing will be the fastest way to level.
I won’t quest, not because it’s slow or fast, but because I’ve already done it 6 times in the last year or three. I’ve done it because through Vanilla and TBCC, I accepted no RDF and couldn’t be bothered struggling to find dungeon groups.
But now that we’re in Wrath, I want RDF so that for the next 6 toons, I’ll have a different experience that will be fresher than running the same quests over, or worse, just following a “Click this, go here” in-app guide that doesn’t even leave the quests up long enough to read.
It’s not a good experience to quest, no matter how “viable” or “equivalent” you make the quests.
And if they don’t give me RDF, I’m just going to pay Blizzard for a 70 boost and skip the proceess entirely, then keep buying them when Blizzard removes the account cap.
“RDF = Press ‘I’ and queue up”
“Questing talk to dude, get quest”
RDF still actually requires you to do the dungeon to get any kind of reward. That is some resistance. 20% was a random number, meant to show a not overwhelming favouritism towards world content. If the number required for quests to be “the path of least resistance” has to be higher, so be it.
Perhaps instead of percentages, it’s best to describe it as the following:
Random Dungeon Finder - queue time, dungeon length, having to interact with other players = 500k xp/h
Questing - No queue time, multiple quests at a time, rare if any forced interaction with other players = 700k xp/h
It does, absolutely. However, the rate at which you kill mobs will be higher than out in the world yourself. Furthermore, you CAN go AFK, if you want, or need to, and the group can still grab some experience for you. I personally wouldn’t recommend it unless you need to, but you do you.
It will never be of lesser resistance than running dungeons:
RDF DOES have a queue (mostly for DPS, but this will be a blanket term for all players) but we’re also able to be doing other things during said queue: questing, professions, farming, etc.
Like TBCC and Classic before it, dungeons don’t require communication, and Lich King’s dungeons are insanely trivial compared to either of those, so no one HAS to interact with other players in dungeons
Questing may not have a queue time, but we’re looking at travel time, kill time, are you having to kill 15 boars for 8 livers, or are you lucky enough to achieve 8 for 8?
Not to mention, that small percentage of WPvP that MIGHT happen (Whether fair fights or pure ganking) will halt a lot of players’ experience gains from questing
We’re also looking at competition from other players in terms of kills and loot
In no universe (based in reality) will questing EVER be faster than dungeon grinding.
I don’t disagree with you at all with the exception that questing could never be faster than dungeon grinding. Collecting treasures in WoD was faster than dungeon grinding. Grinding timeless isle bugs at the end of MoP was faster than dungeon grinding (lmao). The raven lord boss in Brawler’s Guild had insane exploitable level boosting, though quickly nerfed once discovered so not really relevant I just like remembering it as much as possible
-RDF queue time & being able to quest definitely is a thing, but imagine for a moment a world where doing that dungeon would result in less average xp/h - even accounting for the potential of getting ganked. Hell, you could queue into a truly horrible group and wipe repeatedly… Might be less likely on a PvP realm, but its infinitely more likely on a PvE realm (If anyone actually plays on those?)
-Quests don’t require communication either, other than the handful of group quests and even then that “communication” is just “lfg X” in chat.
-Dungeons also have travel time, kill time and iirc there’s almost no low drop rate quests in Wrath - though I could be wrong about that. I’ve done northrend levelling in retail multiple times so possibly they changed it at some point.
-Competition from other players in terms of kills and loot is a valid issue though mostly only at launch.
Still though I get the feeling we are both ultimately in favour of LFD being added.
The issue with this is that we’re not talking about expansions after Wrath of the Lich King. I can’t speak to anything posted above, but we’re talking about Lich King and RDF.
That’s true, you could. Just the same as you could get ganked left, right, and center. The same way you could be killing 105 boars and still be missing 1 Goretusk Liver. However, with Dungeon Finder, we are guaranteed to overcome that particular dungeon, even if members leave and need to be replaced. With “Loot x of this item” quests, you’re competing against RNG, which has been proven many times to hate us.
I never said they did…
If we have RDF as it was, there is no travel time whatsoever. Although, even if we had to travel to it, we wouldn’t have to travel back to somewhere in order to receive the experience. Kill times in groups are much better than when solo - I mean, heck, have you not seen players soloing Lich King dungeons at appropriate levels gaining 750k exp/hour? Imagine putting in a DPS or two with them.
Launch will be BRUTAL, no matter how you look at it. But with the amount of players having mains PLUS Death Knights ready to go into Northrend, I’d wager this will carry on long after launch.
Oh, for sure, we’re on the same page. I’m just expressing my opinion on the middle ground, because unfortunately, there’s no real middle ground because most people aren’t willing to budge on their position.
As a tank RDF would be better for the community, cross realm and all.
If you think I will be accepting any plate/Mail/Leather users in LFG on my Prot Paladin, Blood DK, or Prot Warrior? how foolish you are. Think I’m bringing anything that can justify rolling on leather DPS with my Bear? Think again.
Dual spec is here, and I’ll take the cloth users only.
I will be gatekeeping if I have a choice in it. (Thank you Blizzard for helping me out) which is why I approve of RDF. Stop me from being a toxic meta chad.
RDF was a good thing. As a tank that plays every single spec, I want it. I want it because it stops me from ruining your day. It gets more people playing the game and having fun.
-why would you gatekeep in LFG if you want RDF?
Simple, why would i handicap myself intentionally? All you look after you. Why would it be any different for me?
I’m not worried about me when RDF isn’t in the game. I’m worried about you.
