Yes but you can’t account for some things. Most people weren’t running optimal specs while leveling which changes the difficulty of a dungeon. We gonna change em based on that? Most players in 1.1 were either new to mmo’s or new to WoW. We changing the difficulty for that? How do you accommodate for those things?
You have to have a baseline. Blizzard has decided the baseline is 1.12, you can take it or leave it.
This is strictly about (at least for me) recreating the same difficulty level as the original experience. This has nothing to do with gamer experience (from my perspective) but rather that classes were vastly different in 1.12 (the very end of Vanilla) than they were when we first leveled our characters two years earlier. It is this increase in class power, and the change in relative difficulty that needs to be addressed.
Original experience differs for everyone and is subjective.
Unless you just want them to undo dungeon nerfs, and ability changes. That’s a whole different request though.
You can’t change the difficulty based on “original experience” because original experience is based around a lot of factors including people speccing/playing poorly.
Actually it doesn’t have to be. We can do tests on relative DPS output of the classes from 1.1 to 1.12 and adjust mobs accordingly. This can be purely based on testing and numbers. I think it should be. That is data that can probably be gathered.
Failing to see how original experience isn’t different for everyone and subjective. Also in these tests are you going to spec and play the characters poorly like most of the players in 1.1 -> 1.3 were?
Yeah, watching guys two hand tank groups of mobs while in berserk stance 4-5 levels above them…
But no, I obviously was just a terrible tank during vanilla with now a failing memory.
The type of test I am talking about is pulling parse data. This is much less subjective. While it doesn’t account for bad play, if its possible to compare top parses that would largely get rid of the poor player bias and show values closer to the true delta. With such data, accounting for gear discrepancies is just a math function that is at this point almost trivial to model (I have done it several times).
I don’t know how I could get such data, but I bet dollars to donuts the Classic devs could. IF i had such data, I could give appropriate adjustment information (if necessary) after a few hours of work.
Appears to be the case.
Just buff it to offset the better talents, gear, nerfs, and hardware. NOTHING more than that. The goal is to give the same difficulty as the patch it came out.
Private servers realized that “no changes from experience” required “changes to mob difficulty” for those portions of the game that lagged behind class development.
If you see what you perceive as a “change” and immediately scream “NO CHANGES” without thinking logically, you might be contributing to a loss of the Vanilla experience for all of us.
Very well articulated. Thank you.
Failing to see how original experience isn’t different for everyone and subjective. Also in these tests are you going to spec and play the characters poorly like most of the players in 1.1 -> 1.3 were?
Sure, it’s different for everyone, but there’s such thing called an “average”, or more comprehensively, a “normal distribution”.
If the median 5-man Deadmines group wiped 2 times per run in 2005, and the median 5-man Deadmines group wiped 0.25 times per run in 2019 (partially thanks to 1.12 buffs), was the Vanilla experience really recreated? You know what also changes in this scenario? The satisfaction that you get from completing it.
Good thing they’re shooting for 2006 playstyle then right?
While we’re on this topic. If you leveled in 2004/05 then again in 1.12 you yourself would see the difference in difficulty and wouldn’t be so upset about the game being “easier” because you would know it was easy then.
You defeat the purpose of vanilla releasing post nerf content. If you are going to do Classic, do it right.
Tell me what nerfs happened to RFC, DM, WC, SFK, BFD, Gnomer, SM, RFK, and RFD?
Better talents, itemization, and hardware are the nerfs. They are not direct like a mob nerf, but indirect by increasing player power so it amounts to the same thing.
I just want the Vanilla experience to be recreated as much as it can be. Buffs to classes/talents from 1.1-1.12 is just one of multiple reasons why the content should be buffed.
If years worth of mind-numbing retail, years worth of Vanilla private servers, and several weeks of beta have taught us ANYTHING, it’s that a healthy amount of difficulty is good.
Like I said before, it doesn’t have to be an esport. You shouldn’t have to MinMax. But actually having to use your abilities, maybe CC a little, maybe drink between mobs sometimes, is a GOOD thing.
Such a gross misuse of the word.
Yeah, buff the content, but don’t increase the rewards. I’m sure people will totally fall in line with this logic.
Harder content + same amount of loot = hell no.
Yeah, buff the content, but don’t increase the rewards. I’m sure people will totally fall in line with this logic.
Harder content + same amount of loot = hell no.
By that logic, they should have decreased the rewards as they buffed classes from 1.1 to 1.12.
Also by that logic, streamers wouldn’t want to run through higher level dungeons. Yet they’ve been doing it, and enjoying it, moreso than same-level content.
As if I’d ever change my mind based on that faulty logic.
There is absolutely no chance in hell I would ever say yes to buffing content without increasing the # of loot drops per raid boss.
There is just no way that will ever happen.