Crushing blows are far less scary than people make them out to be.
Crushing blows only do 150% of normal damage which is less than a crit and tanks could eat crits fine at low levels, even some raid bosses. And even if they were big crushes, they only have a 15% chance of occuring on hit against a raid boss/3 levels higher mob. When you consider in dodge+parry, you’re not likely to see a lot of crushing blows.
Good…/thread
I think it’s extremely possible that people don’t have a failproof memory of exactly how hard specific mobs hit 15 years ago.
It’s a long time ago, and memory is quite falliable. This isn’t a “you think you do , but you don’t” thing, it’s just the medical reality of human brains.
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I really disliked playing with the ‘you can’t do “X”[tank gnomer with WW axe] at “Y” [level 30], it will never work, no I won’t even try’ crowd.
About 10 years ago, there was a lvl 46 dwarf begging for a run through BRD, for what felt like an hour. I had been farming it for a few weeks at that point, so I finally got the courage to toss him an invite.
“Where is everyone else?”, he asked. It’s just me, I told him. I figured if I could do it on my own, then bringing along an experienced lvl 46 would only make it easier.
“No one can solo BRD just because they turned 60,” he informed me, before promptly rage-quitting.
And that is where the cookie crumbles. There was a nerf to raids in 1.12 that much I can remember. So that people get to easier see BWL and on. BUT !!! NONE of that matters, because 1.12 was decided to be the version to be played :).
So 1.12 is what we got. I have no reason to doubt Blizz on numbers for 1.12. The reason for this is that … well it is their game. If you remember it being harder, it was before 1.12. Does’t matter because we will be playing 1.12. That is al there is to it.
I started a little after TBC launch, and played the hell out of 1-60 content during that time (never bought an expansion until after Wrath dropped).
I remembered that elites always hit like a truck full of bricks during that time period, both inside and outside of dungeons. At 60 I would farm the early parts of BRD on a frost mage, and would try to solo some of the elite dinos in UnGoro Crater. I would also sometimes carry a lowbie through Stocks for gold. These things could be soloed on a mage to the extent that you could kite/freeze and avoid any damage, because the moment they got a hold of you the hits would be brutal.
I remember needing to CC liberally, even for outdoor elite zones for quests with buddies. The idea of ever taking on a dungeon when mobs are 5 levels higher and red would have been absurd (yet streamers are doing it on the beta…)
When I started playing on a vanilla pserver, it matched exactly what I remembered about 1-60 content (minus the obvious differences with dustwallow marsh redesign, and other TBC changes).
I do not buy the idea for a second that elites were nerfed so hard in 1.12, otherwise I would not have this memory, and I would have found vanilla pservers to be preposterously hard rather than correct. I would not have developed the habits of doing a LoS pull when I finally tanked later, or of doing CC and following kill orders, and waiting several seconds for the tank to establish threat. I distinctly remember my first dungeon in wrath when I tried to polymorph, and someone told me not to bother because the paradigm had changed.
I also do not buy for a second the idea that we were all uniformly bad players back then. I was a much better player then. I started WoW in my early 20s, and spent a significant amount of time practicing extreme soloing on a frost mage, and BG healing with a holy pally in the 30-40 bracket, and later some resto druid PVE healing.
I am a much worse player now, because the reality is that unless you are doing mythic raids or heroic dungeons, year after year of casual playing on retail will erode your ability. Even to the extent that you get good at end game content in retail, you’re really getting good at a drastically different game than Vanilla.
With that as my background, I consider it patently ludicrous that generic elite mobs should melee for roughly the same damage as generic non-elites. Yes, there are obviously exceptional non-elites like the defias mobs who have powerful melee and spell special abilities. But for your standard trash mobs, elites should be generally hitting much harder than non-elites. What I have seen from RFK and BFD is elites and non-elites are practically indistinguishable – if not for their nameplates, I literally would be unable to discern any difference.
But I will also say that nearly all of the damage outside of instances seems perfectly fine, and bosses appear to be fine, as does spell damage in general. It’s very likely this could just be some mitigation bug that is affecting melee damage calculations, and it’s seen more prominent in dungeons where everyone in a party is aggressively stacking buffs and debuffs. Blizzard already found a bug with Stoneskin totem buff lingering beyond the expiration (amusingly, this is found from a link provided by posters here claiming everything in beta is right).
This will be my final post on the subject, because it’s inherent subjectivity and difficulty in measuring leads to flamewars and endless speculation. The beta streamers I’m watching have been reporting the damage numbers (in addition to a number of other very real bugs in mechanics), so our arguing doesn’t matter at this point.
I still am optimistic that WoW Classic will be amazing ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
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yeah i’m not really qualified to speak on that, but i do hope Blizzard at least addresses this officially. And I pray that it is something wrong on their end that needs to be fixed.
I mean, it’s practically Retail.
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I would let you know…BUT I refuse to pay to be in a BETA, so I’ll leave it up to the folks that are doing that for me to figure it out
same. i opted in, but i’m not paying them a dime.
I think it’s a pretty poor idea and it doesn’t reflect vanilla for the majority of its timeline, but 1.12 is what we’re getting.
Not for raw damage reduction it doesn’t you complete doofus. Go away
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Mobs have different attack speeds.
Some elite mobs will attack fast and hit for a mediocre amount of damage. Some non-elite mobs will attack slowly and hit for a larger amount of damage.
Have you entertained that possibility for the discrepancy you think you’re seeing?
This idea that dungeons were only hard pre 1.12 is just revisionism. Did the entire TBC expansion not happen? TBC dungeons were freaking crazy. Flame me for saying this, but I think to this day Magisters’ Terrace is the hardest content I’ve ever done (I only did dungeons and BGs). TBC heroic dungeons made Cataroics look like MoP.
Edit: Ok, I lied, this is my final post.
Edit 2: Nope Galdor, not baiting me back :-p Our arguments are pointless, the testers will test and all will be found one way or the other. I will diminish and go into the west and remain Fyedora.
I’m not baiting you back, if you want to be done with the conversation that’s fine.
They are twinks at this point… stacking best in slot items in every slot. Back in classic my 19 twink hunter could solo 10 players in WSG. It’s not a surprise that they can destroy level appropriate content.
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I started in 2004 so I was there.
Things were different for a variety of reasons but it wasn’t because they systematically nerfed dungeons across the board without telling us about it while also doing it slowly over time so that we didn’t notice it.
Unless anybody who wants to claim that has proof, it’s basically tin foil hat level of thinking.
My god! You’ve inadvertently revealed the incredible truth! Time line!
The vanilla we remember was harder… Our vanilla was in the Beren-stein Bears timeline! It’s the Mandela Effect! We’re victims of the split!
Here in the Beren-stain Bears timeline, vanilla was marshmallow soft, a pillowy experience for gentle boys.
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Do yourself a favor and leave the forums. The people on here are so rabid they don’t even realize how true the statement “you think you do, but you don’t” rings nowadays.
You can back all of your arguments up with math, video evidence, and lay it out for them line by line.
They argue with feelings. And you’ll never beat them.
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Yeah this is a valid point. On a pserver I’m running by the entrance of Dire Maul right now, and the caster elite Ogre-Mages will melee me for 130-140, and the elite Gordok Enforcers will melee for about 300. These two were 53 and 54. I have 2841 HP, so the Enforcer is draining 10% health per hit.
This is on a 56 Paladin with 47.1 % mitigation (4591 armor).
Some elite mobs definitely have incorrect damage on this pserver. I found some caster troll elites in Tanaris who hit like noodles and could be farmed, but the same level melee elites would decimate me for like 10-20 % HP per hit.
Standard pserver caveats apply here, that they are guessing damage numbers, and they might have been accidentally over-buffed as a precaution.