Using damage values from earlier in vanilla isnt exactly changing anything. Its reverting back to a prior stage in the life span of vanilla wow. So you probably stop with post vanilla changes? Pretty obvious isnt it?
Iām gunning down 1.12 because Iām salty as all hell (in a humorous way). I spent a good amount of my time pooping on private servers because they were too easy. Turns out they were harder than 1.12 as it is. Talk about irony. Private servers were indeed way off, but LOL - not in the way I saw it.
I was all about re-tuning but with regards to MC and BWL - when 1.12 talents are fully realized. This was months ago. I gave up on that crusade because it was obvious it wasnāt happening.
But make no mistake this (for me) isnāt about shouting wanting re-tuning, etc etc even though it would be great). Itās about how terrible 1.12 is.
The thing is that nothing notes any significant change in damage values over the course of Vanilla when it comes to leveling dungeons.
So what happens if damage values from 1.1 in the leveling dungeons are the same as they are in 1.12?
I disagree about skill, because as so many have said - WoW wasnāt a hard game even early on. It was just harder than what we see now on 1.12. 1.12 is bordering on retail material.
But whatever. Whoās keeping track. Weāre getting 1.12. But gear was definitely king.
I was all about re-tuning but with regards to MC and BWL - when 1.12 talents are fully realized. This was months ago. I gave up on that crusade because it was obvious it wasnāt happening.
No joke, my guy. And whilst weāre on the subject, this should be our hill to die on; not elite damage in level-fodder instances. The nerfs to raids were necessary, sure (to encourage content exploration in advance of TBC), but man, did they trivialize the content for those of us who agonized through them. I went through two guild implosions: Vael the Corrupt, and Princess Huhu. Once the nerfs hit we were clearing Vael with two tanks and 25ish people in-zone, and Princess Huhu with hardly any nature resist.
Say if the higher level dungeons will actually require some crowd control, 1.12 would still suck, but it would suck less. lol.
As it stands now, no cc required. Dungeons that weāve seen so far are brain dead. Like retail brain dead.
What nerfs are you talking about for these two particular bosses?
This I can get behind. While my guild-based wrecking crew and IRL friends groups were often faceroll-ish with dungeons, even in the latter arc of Vanilla, when I would get Pugging (on alts or whatever) CC was still required for most groupsā trash packs. That to me would be the biggest indicator if something is wrong: stick a handful of green-bedecked strangers in a five-man and have them try to push through with no CC.
Particularly, debuff limit and global damage nerfs.
I didnāt know this was a thing, do you have a patch notes link?
Iām posting on an alt I leveled in vanilla which has unobtainable gear.
I remember doing Deadmines and healing for it and how easy it was.
I remember to this day, how bad other people were when it came to thinking the content was difficult.
I remember someone asked if I had talents in āHolyā in order to heal, which was crazy to think about seeing how 10 points in holy was not going to help in anyway when youāre below level 20, and I had int/spirit gear which was way more beneficial to keep my mana regen up.
I remember someone not understanding how I can be using cloth as a paladin, which I had to explain stats are more important than armor.
Some people back in the day THOUGHT it was super hard content, while people like me remember that it wasnāt. People remember content being hard because they were bad, plain and simple.
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im thinking dungeons and lower lvl mobs were nerfed inbetween 1.10 and 1.12. Mobs hit harder than that when I was doing them in vanilla but I had a few 60s before 1.6 so I wasnāt really playing new characters during the later patches.
Maybe the warriors had 440 def capped? Did you think about that?
Iām on my phone right now, but the debuff limit for sure was a thing and easily searchable. Also, a lot of global damage nerfs were not necessarily āpatchedā so much as hot-fixed, and some of them were on the sly. For Princess Huhu specifically, they hot-fixed her due to the Sheen of Zanza exploit. After that hot-fix we went in and lo! Downed her after two tries. But then again, AQ40 was a bit of a mess as it was- that place was getting hot-fixed every week, just about.
As stated earlier, blizz can make mistakes, and have done so in the past. Thinking they had the right client for demo, but didnt. I played Vanilla since beta, i wasnt 12 or 13, i to remember dungeons being a bit harder. But, as stated previously this is the 1.12 client. Things changed a lot since it launched. I think all this confusion may be due to people not remembering what patch they did dungeons in, but as people have stated and i agree, the outside world is as we remember. It is the dungeon instance world to which we disagree on difdiculty. You want proof, as you should, and id say thousands of people seeing a discrepency is enough to investigate. Which blizz says they have done and says its accurate. We dont have ample evidence to show or prove othetwise at this level. There IS ample evidence in the 55+ range. I guess we will have to wait until then to confirm or disprove our concerns. You will have to forgive us of we dont trust blizz. Seeing it for ourselves will quell the concerns.
Tl;dr
Reserve all concerns until 60 beta
I wanna see one of the streamers do SM cathedral. If they arenāt getting hit hard by those monks ā¦ lol.
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Priests doing Holy Fire, ouch!
For the record Iām all for investigating and ensuring it is authentic.
Iām just not about to believe people that dungeons were harder at launch simply because they said thatās what they remember. Especially when Iāve also been playing since 2004.
The thing is that to degree to which these dungeons were evidently nerfed based on what people are saying isnāt the kind of thing that slips by unnoticed. I could believe it getting past the patch notes, as a lot of things did back then.
but there would be some other evidence. A forum post, a video recorded, even a Thottbot comment.
The complete and utter lack of any evidence, even from 2004/2005 archives, makes me suspect itās more a case of people just not being as good at the game. Even if you were an older MMO veteran, the new game still takes time to adapt to and fully learn the ins and outs of it.
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To which i agree and am willing to admit i may be wrong. Thats why i am waiting till the beta progresses until 60 and make my judgment then. There are tons of videos we can all watch and make comparisons. I think at that point all of us can agree if its accurate or not.
I think a lot of people just remember it being harder because no one know where to get gear that was as good as people in beta are using. Most of how to gear and where to get the good gear was a mystery until you played a while.
On top of that, add that some of the earlier gear was even more poorly itemized than its later variants.
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