Dumpster Fire:

Community General Discussion
141

Yeah, true.

I mention it, because I never understand why people just dismiss dicussions or debates on things due to it “Just being opinion.”

Sometimes I can state my opinion harshly or firmly, I can admit that. :woman_shrugging:

But usually it’s because based on my personal experience it’s how I see things, and I haven’t found anything convince to change my mind yet.

142

Fair enough, im glad your enjoying BfA, I thought classes and combat in general were more enjoyable in WoD but then I mainly PvP’d so there wasnt a supposed content drought for me as I keep hearing other people say.

143

People experiences differ thus their opinions to a degree and its all based on how you play and what you do in WoW. To say I think as a whole BFA or even any of the past xpac is a total waste of my time coming from a raider and a person whom levels 40 toons to max level. I will say no it has not been.

I have gotten my moneys worth of play time out of all of them. Being retired I have a lot of spare time to spend on doing things in world. Does that mean I feel that WoW is without fault when it comes to things, absolutely not. I can list a few things I think is out of wack and reduce my enjoyment within the game.

But its hardly worth me to lose my mind over or think about quitting or even not ordering the next xpac. I still enjoy playing each and every day hours on end.

So yes when I hear a person outright not only state and speak their mind, which I may or may not agree with I will state mine as well if that is to agree with or against them. And yes I will state my reasons why. I will also point out of the person who is carrying on like it is the end of the world has even played the game or stated that they have not played the game for years on end or months which ever it may be. Simply said if you have not played the game since WoD then how do you actually know just how bad things are in BfA, only by word of mouth, videos or someone else opinion. Or it could be just self hate of the game or Blizzard and the need to complain about it to try to drive others away.

I will always state to these people their reason are bologna and crazy talk.

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144

I didn’t PvP, there was no dailies, heroic dungeons capped out quickly, and I wasn’t really impressed by the Ogre raid, and the BRF was okay…? But still I wasn’t feeling raiding, since I didn’t have anything else to do…

Also they basically gave everyone a herb garden… so you know my professions tanked hard, and I couldn’t even enjoy those.

Was like paying $60 to have a warcraft theemed farmville game, and paying 15$ a month to run garrison missions, and one of the big content patches was bloody twitter intergation, and a selfie camera.

The last patch was barely tolerable… but even then they made some of the overworld stuff weeklies, not dailies.

People might complain that islands and warfronts aren’t amazing content… but I’ll take island expeditions any day over garrison missions.

at least I get to physically do stuff in Islands :frowning:

145

Sheesh sounds bad for you, I can see how our experiences were different. Id rather do nothing than islands lol, since the combat mechanics feel clunky to me now.

146

(holds fresh marshmellows over the thread) mmmmmmtoasty.

Anyone want one?

147

See theres no reason to shout down other peoples’ opinions unless your trying to spin.

148

I completely disagree with the original poster.

So far at least I’m having fun with 8.3:

  • The invasions in Vale/Uldum are mildly interesting.
  • The corruptionforge system is exciting. I don’t have any great corruptionforges yet, but it’s fun hunting and hoping for them.
  • The new raid is extremely well done. It has many great fights and a ton of bosses to work through.
  • The unlock scenarios for 8.3 were interesting (the first time).

My overall impression of BFA so far:

Summary of BFA:

  • Good:
    • Second half of the expansion
      • Got a lot better as it went along. 8.2 introduced 2 unique new zones that were fairly well done. The devs finally caught out than rapid massive buffs/nerfs weren’t such a good idea. The middle raids were much better than the starting raid.
      • In many ways 8.3 continues this trend. Plenty of new fresh content and an even better raid.
    • Later raids
    • Mechagon/Nazjatar
    • world quests
    • Vulpera - they look super-cute and loads of fun.
  • Bad:
    • Negative Power progression - important in any RPG is the feeling that as you continue to play your character gets strong and more powerful (positive power progression). BFA failed to do this at the start of the expansion in a very harsh way, and still hasn’t succeeded:
      • First expansion ever where players got ZERO new abilities or talents going from the previous expansion’s max level to the new expansion’s new max level.
      • Due to ability pruning, loss of artifact weapon, and loss of legion legendaries, playing BFA initially felt like my character took a gigantic step backwards in power. Instead of going up 10 levels it felt like I’d regressed 30 levels.
      • Even now, at the final tier of the expansion, my character has fewer abilities and substantially less firepower than in Legion. I still feel like I’m lower level than when I was at 110.
      • This sort of negative power progression is not good in an MMO and shows a failure of game design.
    • Too much ability pruning. And unfortunately what we’re getting back in Shadowlands doesn’t appear to fix this. Still too much.
    • Started out awful. I didn’t like the initial raid and BFA kept buffing/nerfing azerite traits so rapidly and severely it felt like the game was playing us rather than the other way around.
    • Early azerite system sucked with how you could not equip upgrades due to neck level limits.
    • Island expeditions are boring
    • World mode became “horde mode”
    • Darkshore and the other invasion are sorta boring. But on the other hand adding heroic mode did help to keep them relevant.
    • Mechagnomes and Kul Tiran Humans - what idiot thought these races would be something people would actually want to play???
    • Horses - another idiotic decision how just about every new easily obtainable mount for Alliance is a horse.
      • Yes there is a reason why the devs gave Alliance only horses… it fit in the role-playing storyline.
      • But the problem with that is WoW isn’t just a story … it’s a GAME. And as such, gameplay and fun are VERY important. Only having horses available fails the “Is this fun” test.

My overall opinion: A content-rich expansion, with some hits and quite a few misses, especially in its early design. Not the best expansion out there, but FAR from the worst.

Of course my opinion may change if we’re still playing BFA a year from now. Hopefully Shadowlands won’t take an excessive amount of time to come out.

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149

To be fair from my end. .Elemental hasn’t changed hardly at all, nor restoration… Enchance has, but eh…

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150

To be honest I’m just sick of being the “new dev teams” testing dummy. The old guys before them where cranky and opinionated but they knew their stuff.

I have found in life that the guys who do everything often can not verbilize how much they actually do. Then they get overtaken by the guys with the silver tongues who talk a huge game but have NO clue how many details go into things. That is until they take over and fail miserably.

4 Likes
151

BFA isn’t awful. It’s enormously better than WoD was and has much more content.

However, the design of BFA in 8.0 and 8.1 was the worst of any expansion yet. The devs made a LOT of really bad decisions in the initial design of the expansion.

Fortunately, they learned from their mistakes and fixed many of the problems while adding a lot of interesting new content.

In my opinion, at launch, BFA was hands down the worst expansion ever at that point in the cycle. Fortunately the devs learned and the BFA of 8.2 and 8.3 was enormously better than BFA of 8.0 and 8.1.

However, even now in 8.3, BFA is still enormously inferior to Legion, which was one of the best WoW expansions ever.

152

I liked the graphics, environments, music, and can appreciate some quality programming when i see it… but the people in charge of monetizing wow need to just stop.

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153

The only obvious “monetizing WoW” are the mounts at the shop.

There’s no evidence whatsoever that anything else in the game design was caused by accountants or higher management overriding the game designers.

My impression of BFA is “inexperienced design team that had to relearn the lessons of old that the devs should have known from prior expansions”.

Every expansion the developers try new things and add new features. This is good, because this is what keeps the game fresh for the players.

In Legion, Blizzard hit a home-run.

  • Just about every new feature was a great addition to the game.

In BFA, Blizzard whiffed.

  • All the new features in the game at launch were failures, and Blizzard had forgotten important lessons earlier design teams on prior expansions had learned.
  • Fortunately, the devs learned from the mistakes and 8.2 and 8.3 were enormously superior to 8.0 and 8.1.
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154

I agree they need to keep trying new things but we’re never going to get hard evidence of anything, can only go by the general direction we see things going in game. Its incredibly frustrating to feel slowed down at every step in so many small ways that it just looks like a time played metric push. Death by a thousand cuts.

155

“The grind” has always been a big part of WoW. That was true 15 years ago and it’s still true today.

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156

Legion felt like a breath of fresh air, go fast, have fun. BfA hit the brakes hard. BfA is like that scene in the expanse when the belter trying to break a speed limit orbiting around jupiter and saturn suddenly hits the slow zone lol red mist

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157

The art and sound people are top notch and always are. Big ups for those guys.
As far as monetising wow they don’t really do anything other than charge the same sub for the last 15 years without adjusting for inflation.
They added a cash shop which doesn’t effect me in the slightest (or anyone other than obsessive mount collectors for that matter) and a wow token which let’s me spend gold on transfers instead of $ so that’s great.

As far as higher ups putting pressure for faster patches than they are able to do, the patches were faster in legion than bfa. You will now say that is because they cut jobs. I will then reply that things get done in advance so cutting jobs after bfa was out obviously didn’t effect 8.0.

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158

And notice how I’m not saying you’re wrong for enjoying yourself.

The game’s just gotten worse and worse and had they made this level of change from Burning Crusade to now immediately, it would’ve killed the game first thing.

Instead, it’s been a slow transition like the frog to boiling water. Eventually it’s going to die regardless.

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159

We’re each entitled to our own opinions of course. I can see you’re not having fun with 8.3. That’s unfortunate, but not everyone feels the same way. I’m enjoying it, so far.

Personally, I think the game today is enormously better than it was during TBC.

I’m not saying that TBC was a bad expansion. It wasn’t. It’s actually my favorite expansion. It felt very epic and the zones were the most unique and creative in WoW’s history.

But the game design has advanced since then. I would find TBC’s gameplay to be primitive and boring compared to what I’m used to today.

160

That is actually so incredibly sad.
Even sadder is that I just realized it. It’s funny we as individuals are Azeroth’s Champions and among those who defeated the Burning Legion, but it was all with rented power.

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