Dual Spec When?

[Terrorrz-skeram]

For the love of all that is good, please add dual spec. I’m sick and tired of having to re do my bars every time I want to arena… oh wait jk I only get to arena once a week because I have to pay 100g to respec.

Can we add dual spec already so the game be fun. Or barring that just allow players to choose a spec when they zone into a 5man or raid and they can a 2nd spec outside that?

[Frosto-faerlina]

When?

Patch 3.1.0.

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@Terrorrz-skeram

Can we add dual spec already so the game be fun.

If the game isn’t fun for you, then…

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@Terrorrz-skeram

I’m sick and tired of having to re do my bars every time I want to arena…

There are addons that can help you. I tend to prefer no to use addons unless I have an extremely compelling reason to. So, I prefer to use macros for skills, where I comment out the ones I use for the spec that I am not currently.

E.g.

#showtooltip
# /cast NotThisSpecSkill
/cast ThisSpecSkill

[Terrorrz-skeram]

then make it fun? yeah what do you think im trying to do.

[Frosto-faerlina]

@Terrorrz-skeram

what do you think im trying to do.

Are you asking me what I think your intentions are, or what the likely results of what you’re asking for are?

[Terrorrz-skeram]

@Frosto-faerlina

Are you asking me what I think your intentions are, or what the likely results of what you’re asking for are?

You said “If the game isn’t fun for you, then…” and i finished your quote. “then make it fun? yeah what do you think im trying to do.”

[Frosto-faerlina]

@Terrorrz-skeram

You said “If the game isn’t fun for you, then…” and i finished your quote.

Indeed.

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@Terrorrz-skeram

what do you think im trying to do.

I think you’re trying to enjoy yourself. I think that is your intention.

(I don’t think what you’re asking for will give you what you want)

[Bawx-heartseeker]

I think duel spec won’t happen honestly. As much as I would like it, I doubt they will

[Frosto-faerlina]

@Bawx-heartseeker

I think duel spec won’t happen honestly.

Both ways, I agree.

@Bawx-heartseeker

As much as I would like it

I’d like it about as much as a napkin for wiping vomit or other excrement off of my hand. I’d much prefer a better solution to that problem.

[Terrorrz-skeram]

@Frosto-faerlina

I think you’re trying to enjoy yourself. I think that is your intention.

(I don’t think what you’re asking for will give you what you want)

Idk my options atm are

1. get dual spec so I can enjoy pvp

2. farm 100g every week so I can pvp but more realistically

3. Quit pvping and play another game as I raid log.

[Frosto-faerlina]

@Terrorrz-skeram

my options atm are

Nope. Those aren’t your options.

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For some reason, you’re asking for Dual Spec. Why?

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Let me rephrase (I don’t want to be coy here).

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Dual spec came and went. It wasn’t the worst thing ever, but it didn’t solve the issues it aimed to solve (imo). What issues?

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Currently, in Retail WoW, you can freely respec out of combat.

Let’s reverse the question. What are the benefits/upsides of being confined to a particular talent build?

[Bawx-heartseeker]

I think he is telling you his options he deems worthy of spending a subscription fee

[Frosto-faerlina]

OK. Thanks for letting me know that I am not doing a decent job of explaining what I am saying, Bawx.

Give me a couple minutes to reread what got us here, and rephrase, please.

[Frosto-faerlina]

@Terrorrz-skeram

• get dual spec so I can enjoy pvp
• farm 100g every week so I can pvp but more realistically
• Quit pvping and play another game as I raid log.

This doesn’t feel like fun, to me.

I totally agree that things could be better and more fun for us players. However, I don’t think dual spec really solves any problems. It’s maybe a little better than what we have right now, so I wouldn’t complain if it were added, but we’d still have all the same problems.

Mostly, I suppose this is my opinion:

@Frosto-faerlina

I can definitely see how dual spec would fit in. I don’t personally think it solves the problem that you’ve identified as well as either reducing/removing respec fees, or simply allowing free respecs while out of combat. All of that would change the way some people play (which might not be a bad thing - it might even be good).

And maybe this too:

No Dual Spec: Something Better

TL;DR: Reducing respec fees solves more problems than dual spec would. Dual spec is something that some people are asking for for TBC. Some people are against it. However, what people aren’t talking about is the actual problem(s) that it aims to solve, and/or whether it does a good job of solving that (or those) problem(s). The Problem. As I see it, respecc’ing maxing out at 50g/per is a high enough cost to prevent a lot of people from doing it often. Whatever the intended design decision he…

[Bawx-heartseeker]

As long as it doesn’t aid pay to win meta it shouldn’t be a problem. I don’t think it will Fix anything but people have already left this game for its poor state, so the damage is done

[Frosto-faerlina]

@Bawx-heartseeker

people have already left this game for its poor state, so the damage is done

IDK that that’s true.

@Frosto-faerlina

According to a pretty reliable source, the data indicate that the reason people quit is almost always “I have less time to play now (job/school/family” and “My friends don’t play anymore.”

Based on so much data, it’s not super open to debate.

“Unsubbing is often seen as the only 'real' way by players to express their...

[Bawx-heartseeker]

I highly agree with this actually. I will now support reduced respec costs over dual spec

[Frosto-faerlina]

@Bawx-heartseeker

I will now support reduced respec costs over dual spec

I mean, it’s more universally helpful to all… or at least equally impactful.

[Riger-arugal]

@No Dual Spec: Something Better

However, what people aren’t talking about is the actual problem(s) that it aims to solve, and/or whether it does a good job of solving that (or those) problem(s).

Amen, What is the core problem and what is the simplest way to solve it?

[Frosto-faerlina]

@Riger-arugal

What is the core problem

I think Fasc’s explanation here is not bad:

@Fasc-atiesh

At a cost, it eliminates the need to seek out ramping cost retraining for routine and frequent spec changes between two explicit setups. The former Blizzard assumption was that specs were semi-set in stone strategic choices that were discouraged from swapping repeatedly, so the assumption by Blizzard was that if you wanted to do both PvE and PvP, you had better pick a hybridized set of talents and stick with it. This assumption was proven to be unequivocally poor as players preferred instead of to be ideally specialized for whatever content they did and would either stick to one area of play nearly exclusively (the majority of players) or outright ignore the cost of swapping and just swap very regularly (the minority of players). In neither case do you have people making strategic decisions about the talents themselves, as intended, but rather people were refusing to compromise their best performance.

This is why GC noted in his interview with Neth (who originally posted about talents being strategic decisions) that the old talent system was simply being circumvented, and that no amount of endless testing/tweaking/retuning was going to make it such that people would stop seeking out the inevitable best setups for respective roles or game modes.

It solves the problem of an archaic system that doesn’t actually do its intended job.

[Bawx-heartseeker]

Sounds like GC back then was saying in a clever way “we don’t know how to balance between pve and pvp” lol