So now pserver data is the be all end all? You asked for a reason not to have it and i gave you one. Going off pserver data we should have an arena only server and only play Wrath and Classic and they should be overturned to require drums or world buffs.
Perhaps Pservers are not the best data points to use for how things should be.
Because more people donât want other expansion features hamfisted into a game they donât belong in.
To be fair, the original implementation of Dual Spec required someone to first pay 1,000 gold and then it could only be activated in a rest area. Thatâs the one most people are asking for, I think.
Sure it does. The game itself moves further away from the defining qualities of a mmorpg and we saw what happened in retail. Dual spec should be kept in wrath to add a special something to wanting to play the expansion. TBC got this with the seal change, and sadly boosts.
The other changes were implented due to what makes sense and why people came back. Letâs not make the mistake that was made in classic and fix most of the issues by originals designs that fixed classes and spec to a good spot while adding in attunements, moving pvp seasons to be more in line with raids item wise, and pre-nerfed content.
TBC is beautiful the way they are planning on doing it, although i find the boosts odd and should be gated behind a 60. I think they learned.
I vote for dual spec for BC.
Unlike removing stuff like spell batching and world buffs that are undoubtedly positive changes in my mind, I can agree Dual Spec is one of the more slightly controversial changes in the #SomeChanges move.
I see dual spec as a positive change solely to have a PVP and a PVE spec without the requirement to respec every time you wanna do one. I am a PVP player generally, but since the bosses in BC are going to be pre-nerf at least for a while, I see a chance that unlike vanilla classic ,BC classic raiding become challenging and fun. So I am considering doing PVE too.
Now, most classes have total different builds for PVP and PVE, so if you really want to do both PVP and PVE, youâll have 2 options. 1. respec every single time 2. do the content with the wrong spec. Neither of above options are optimal and fun.
Lastly, some people say that respecing in BC is not gonna cost a lot, so you can respec for raids every week. I disagree with that. Imagine this scenario:
I start the week in PVP spec and itâs SSC/TK raid time, so i go respec, lets say 50g. After raid I want to PVP, so i have to respec, another 50g. Next day, I wanna do a PuG Kara, another 50g. Again back to PVP, another 50g. Now I want to run some heroics, so i gotta go with PVP spec or another 50g. back to PVP another 50g. The Kara PuG failed to kill Prince, so i need to go back in cuz i want the bow, another 50g. back to PVP another 50g. More heroics and more PVP ⊠50g, 50g, 50g ⊠You sum up the numbers⊠well wait, add a couple of more 50g for each time I miss-click 1 single talent point, which is very likely to happen if I have to respec 12 times a weekâŠ
So if there is not gonna be a dual spec, I will most likely have 2 different main toons, one main for PVP and one main for PVE and thatâs not fun, cuz i want one main âŠ
I donât remember this being a thing. I was present when it was around so I definitely at least knew about the 1,000g cost. Its just one of those insignificant things that I could in fact be forgetting. But even then, player will abuse it. I do remember in TBC that you could summon somebody that is already inside the raid/dungeon and a player could hearth/ghetto hearth to come back in that time frame. So it doesnât prevent players from swapping specs mid raid if they can just hop out and right back in.
And Iâm right there with ya #DualSpec in tbc
Um, yeah having that data drastically changed the ânatureâ of the âclassic experienceâ. If you are going to argue itâs a slippery slope, tough, it already was one out of the gate. Dual spec makes it âconvenientâ for a lot of players, like me, who are planning on being more versatile. not just for pvp vs pve, but ârolesâ as well. The economy is already gonna be inflated when TBC hits, this change just makes it slightly better on the purse.
I never stated whether or not itâd be abused - which it most definitely would be - just stating that the original Dual Spec was much less fluid than it is in retail.
Says the warlock for whom it doesnât matter.
Grinding out dailies on my resto druid was absolutely not fun. I could take twice as long, or respec to boomie to quest efficiently but blow the a dayâs worth of gold. Not good choices. DPS classes like you donât have to be faced with that choice. Dual spec is a huge QoL boost for tanks and healers and it wouldnât hurt TBC at all.
There isnât a single class that does not have to compromise on spec. PvE spec is bad for pvp. Some classes have multiple PVP or PVE specs depending on content. Some classes have multiple roles. There is no such thing as a class free of wanting to respec to optimize. And none of them should be allowed to.
I was a Warrior and Druid in TBC. Tank most of the time on War, Resto on Druid cause itâs best pvp spec. Thereâs not much savings to be had by respecing for grinding or dailies. You can do it perfectly fine long as you got your gear sets.
You donât get it. Compromise on a warlock is nothing like compromise on a tank or healer. Go grind out SSO dailies for three months on a tree druid with nothing but T5 healing gear and a couple DPS pieces you only got because they would have been sharded and you begged and get back to me.
Iâve raided with plenty of DPS players in PvP specs. Itâs unacceptable for progression but not an issue on farm content.
Youâre just sounding like the kind of person who gets a paper cut and swears theyâre dying. Been there, done that content as both a prot war and resto druid.
If you dont have any dps gear thats your own fault. Even dungeon gear is perfectly adequate, and arena gear is easily available as well.
Character assassination is not debate. Itâs just bad trolling.
How, exactly, does dual spec hurt TBC? Be specific.
It brings more min-maxing to the game and eliminates completely the validity of hybrid specs.
By adding dual spec you actually reduce the number of valid choices in the game for your character. Thats lame and one of the biggest flaws with retail right now and how specs work over there. Its freely changeable so you just optimize for each situation and spec swap.
Why play a Balance Resto Hybrid when you can go pure resto or balance and switch between them when you want to do each? Why bother with a hybrid arms/defiance spec when you can freely swap between them?
Hybrid specs are valid and viable choices in Vanilla and TBC. They are interesting on their own merits. Add dual spec and youâll never see them again, and thatâs not a good thing.
I agree that optimizing talents per fight in Retail is over the top. However, I didnât have the experience that hybrid specs were valid in TBC. If I walked into a raid and didnât shift into ToL, my raid lead would have understandably asked me to go to Moonglade and respec to tree. The resto raiding build was pretty cut-and-dried at 14/0/47. I could have possibly moved a few points around, but only if I knew in advance that another druid was tossing improved thorns on the tank at pull. For feral, playing without Mangle feels awful, so thatâs 41 points into feral. Maybe you and I have a different idea of âhybridâ but I donât think dumping 41 points to get to the bottom of a talent tree results in anything resembling a hybrid. Dreamstate balance/resto druids or the arena feral/resto spec were true hybrids but neither were raid viable.
Similarly, I donât feel like I have flexibility to play hybrid on my Classic priest. Most of us play 21/30 Holy because mana is so tight itâs hard to use any other build. One of our priests tried deep disc but he gave it up because he kept going OOM. Iâd love to be able to kick back and run UBRS as shadow, but it would take me 2 hours of fishing to earn the gold to go to shadow and back.
Thinking about it, Iâd advocate for dual spec, but with a significant cost to change talents, like ramping up to 250g instead of 50g.
Your experience was different than mine by far. I used Tree of Life exactly once and specced back out of it cause it was pvp trash. Even in PVE, I lost more mana shifting to reposition from mechanics than saved by Tree. Just too niche for me to bother. Used Arena Resto with feral charge for the rest of the expansion and had zero issues raiding.
Sounds more like your raid leader was a party pooper. Cause we raided with like half the raid in pvp specs, including healers.
yeah im pretty sure theres not a single spec that doesnt have to respec at least some points if they want to switch back and forth and do well in PVP and PVE
Agreed
It would be nice to have an option where we can go and speak with our class trainer in a Major city hub to swap between two specs that weâve already built out. (If you want to adjust one of those specs then you pay the respec cost)
This is going to only benefit the health and longevity of the TBC player population. It will increase the population of people participating in BGs, World Dailies, Arenas, Heroics and Raiding.
This is extremely beneficial for Healers and Tanks which as weâve seen from classic are in extremely high demand for ALL forms of group content. This will encourage more players to actually participate in these roles more actively without feeling like they are being penalized for making a swap.