Remember when they had to offer tanks an extra loot bag in Wotlk because dual spec fixed the tank shortage?
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Retail doesn’t have dual spec.
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Now watch as people squirm their way out of this one.
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Sure, but you’re kind of getting into semantics. It’s essentially the same thing, but that’s not really the point. The QoL features in retail isn’t what makes retail suck. Retail sucks because of how hollow the gameplay is. If you took away transmog or mount tabs from retail, it wouldn’t be a better game.
It doesnt. Retail is proof.
He’s not. Dual Spec simply doesn’t exist in Retail. It is not a Retail thing. At all.
I’m sorry, but the folks who pull the “Dual Spec is Retail” clearly don’t know a thing about Retail or Classic. They’re pulling the excuse out of their rear-end as matter of course because they have no real argument.
It has become a standard NPC-esque response, much like #NoChanges was before TBC Classic.
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Again, you’re taking that a bit literally. What people want is the ability to change specs without sinking the gold into it each time. Call that whatever you want. Frankly I don’t care if it goes into the game or not. As long as they don’t mess with the gameplay, I wouldn’t even notice.
while i personally would like dual spec, i can understand the viewpoint of the #nochanges crowd that would argue against this.
think about this tho: when dual spec was introduced in wrath it was barely more than changing the way you pay for your weekly respecs between raiding and questing/dungeons or pvp. it was 1000 gold to puchase the dual spec. i feel like the real issue at hand here was (and is in classic) is the ramping up cost of respecs. if it just capped at 10g per respec, or only ramped up for multiple respecs in the same day, or if the price just decayed a lot faster… any of these would have worked to alleviate the cost that’s just too heavy for many players.
if im being honest, throughout tbc i respecced maybe a dozen times across 3 toons. i hated paying that money to respec. i avoided it like the plague. The 1000g per toon was miles more gold than i had EVER payed for respeccing across all my toons combined before that. it still felt better than paying every time.
adjusting the way respec costs ramp up or decay over time would fall a bit more comfortably in the #somechanges area and might get some support from both sides.
and while i do agree that this would shore up a bit the occasional shortage of tanks or heals available for 5 mans, i think it more just a good idea in general.
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I could get on board with this. Make the respec cost reset every other week or every week. Its supposed to get cheaper if you don’t do it often but it takes too long for the price to go down.
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I am ping ponging between the two as content releases allow, so maybe in your mind my opinion counts for less that yours?
I would also like to see dual spec in classic and believe it would be a positive result to the game. I accept it would be a big big change and I accept you disagree.
Kind of reductive to say “go to retail” though.
Hey, look at that, another genius who thinks that a problem will be fixed by trying something that has already been tried in the past and failed spectacularly to fix the problem.
To re-instate my argument so that even someone like you can comprehend:
WotLK not only introduced duel specs, but also Death knigths, satchel, and dungeon finder… Guess what? It didn’t work. And yet your great intellect foresees that JUST dual specs would either fix or STRONGLY alleviate the problem?
Yeah. You’re coocoo.
Reality? Tanks are mostly grouping with their friends/guild. Most tanks do not want to deal with all of you second rate, mouth-breathing pug’ers.
Want to know something that’s even more frustrating for people like you? Dual specs would mostly benefit people like me: someone who loves to tank and heal. And guess what? I still wouldn’t do either role for most of you baddies.
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Considering retail has the advanced form of dual spec, providing even more freedom of spec than dual spec has…
Then what you just said has no grounds, because none of the points change, just the name of what’s being said.
And for the record
The stance does not change.
It really doesn’t. The term tank shortage has been used in every damn expansion there is.
You always need like 2 tanks and a million dps. People don’t want to gear out toons to just do a dungeon.
If anything, mythic plus made it better because there are more reasons to continue doing dungeons and some people will never raid, but yea. 2 tanks in a raid, raids give the only source of good loot, not an excessive amount of tanks. It’s quite simple
I don’t want Joe to put on whatever crap gear he has and tank my heroic Arc for the first time tanking anything anyways
And so it begins.
squirm out of what, the fact that I clarified in an older post?
This is a ridiculous argument.
Using this logic, there are no negatives to basically doing anything that increases the convenience level of the player.
This is essentially making the argument that the only unique, identifiable trait of TBC is solely the literal raid content and the sandbox through which you play the game to approach the bosses (lvl 70, these abilities, these talents, working x/y way). Which is absurd. This game is more than just the gameplay in a raid setting.
No. Not having dual spec is, in contrast to post WOTLK, a feature. Having to run to a dungeon physically (or in TBC, at least the meeting stone) is a feature. Having to pay money to respec, also a feature.
That’s the whole damn point of going back in time to play these older versions of WoW, because many of us actually like these “inconveniences” for what they add to the feel of the game, or dislike the effect of blizzard “solving” these issues later on, because years and years of “solving” led to the reason we left retail to play classic today in the first place.
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Was completely opposed to dual spec until blizzard put in the same faction BGs, if the same factions BGs become permanent I see no reason why they can’t add dual spec.
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So you made an argument about changes in a game made by Blizzard that was somehow completely unrelated to Blizzard being for or against changes?
But neither was Seal of the Martyr.
No. You’re wrong. Sorry.
So, if I said the same about Seal of the Martyr or Level 58 boosts, same result, right?
It’s also an argument for any of those things.
Is it? Why?
Kind of like a Level 58 boost, right?
So how did that work out for ya when it came to Seal of the Martyr?
Doesn’t really matter when they announced, at Blizzcononline, that they are in a #SomeChanges attitude.
Aww… 
Yes, probably. I love making an “argument” and then adding “probably” and then telling people that I’ve made an in-depth argument.
They have. More people can switch to tanks, healers, dps, whatever on the go at their convenience without having to go to town and pay an obligatory fee for it. That’s really all there is to it.
I notice all your arguments being and end at whether or not it makes sense to you. See, the thing is, you’re not the center of the universe and so it’s not like anyone is particularly beholden to your opinion.
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I believe it’ll make it worse by giving current tanks a way out of tanking when they aren’t tanking.
The current way keeps them from swapping.
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Seal of the Martyr for Alliance
Level 58 Boosts
Rift Stalker Mounts
Patch 2.4.3 on release.
How exactly is this “going back in time” and playing an “older version of WoW” again?
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