RP was more tightly coupled with game play in Vanilla and TBC than in subsequent expansions. It’s a fundamental design difference.
Wrath in many ways set in motion the decoupling of RP from game at impacting.
Having to design your characters role in a bespoke manner and then having an inconvenience imposed to change it such as gold cost per change is a was Vanilla and TBC attempt to integrate RP with game play. That gets eroded when you have a pay once forever free dual spec model (or even the more flexible and functionally superior retail model). They are different designs.
Does it break the game - no. But it’s not a change I want or that we need.
Again, go back 3-6 months before the discussion got super toxic and all of these arguments have been made, again and again. Even with the fabuloud four falsely claiming that no argument against ds has been put forward.
First of all, retail does have talent trees, they just look and work differently. Pretty sure in-game they are still called talents.
Also…why couldn’t they change spells and abilities? #somechanges, right?
Why don’t they give everyone 10 extra talent points, just like they did in WOTLK? I mean would anybody really complain? All it really does it make our builds more flexible and make people wanna login to experiment and play more.
Retail has a tiered talent system where you unlock tiers as you level, a system which has a lot of major changes beyond just that.
TBC and Wrath have trees where you unlock talents by progressing down the tree. And yes they did exactly that going into TBC they give people 10 more talent points and deeper talent trees. Just like they did in Wrath.
I don’t see how going to a trainer and him bopping me on the head and i magically forget all my talents is somehow better RP than I go a trainer and he teaches me how to switch talents cause you know he’s a trainer so he should be able to teach me how to do it.
Now hey, if switching talents now actually took a long involved quest chain that required a lot of grouping that might be a valid point, but it doesn’t does it?
So? I mean there’s no limit on change so long as it’s an improvment no?
Unless there is too much change? Then where’s the line? That’s the point of this line of discussion, it’s to understand why, in your head, retail talents are too much change and WoTLK are just right.
Obviously one involves more change than the other but why is that an issue to you?
That adds some things to the game that weren’t in BC. Dual spec doesn’t add anything new. It just makes it easier to do what you can already do for 100 gold. It’s a minor qol change.
You no changers are the only ones who make that argument. I guess you think it’s smart or something but I think it’s stupid.
Retail talents add some things to the game that didn’t exist at all in the game. Dual spec doesn’t add anything new. It just makes it easier to do what you can already do for 100 gold.
The fact that I want there to be a special arena spec shoves your dishonest remark right back in your face.
I don’t like wrath and don’t like the wrath talent system. I also don’t think it fits TBC and I don’t think it solves the issues you think it’s gooding to solve.
I’ve given a heuristic of where I think the line should be drawn for changes, you have not. That’s not a no change position. You and your pony beggar friends have pitched that nonsense for months now.
Dual spec is a mechanic to switch between two talent layouts, something that can already be done, that is a huge distinction. Dual spec does not change how a single talent works.
A more analogous comparison would be letting you queue for BG’s anywhere instead of just at a battle master, which I would also be fine with.
