Dual spec please

[Noxianrage-benediction]

@Egwyn-arugal

The only counterargument I have ever seen from you guys to these points is “no you wont do these things because you and everyone like you (who says they will) is lying”.

Its the only sad and pathetic excuse they got

[Dualspecplz-arugal]

#dualspecplz

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Feywaif-atiesh

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

So somehow dual spec will let you have an arena spec, a pvp dps spec, a pve healer spec, and all with just 2 talent trees from dual spec. Thats amazing! 3 specs in 2!

I get when you’re only playing 10 hours a week you don’t understand that most of us play more and have alts. it’s not 3 specs in 2. It’s 2 characters both with 2 specs

We’re also in actually competent guilds that don’t micro manage our specs but somehow manage to never get above average.

[Egwyn-arugal]

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

So somehow dual spec will let you have an arena spec, a pvp dps spec, a pve healer spec, and all with just 2 talent trees from dual spec. Thats amazing! 3 specs in 2!

You’re just trolling at this point, buzz off and go farm fish sticks or w/e

[Ziryus-pagle]

We know he can min maxx that!!!

[Zipzo-atiesh]

@Egwyn-arugal

Degenerates.

As long as you continue to end your posts with ad hominem like this, you’re forever the absolute child in this thread, at least Ziryus doesn’t do this, for as irritating and impervious to logic as he is.

Your logic for “That’s at least 1 more tank” doesn’t track and this argument has been dispelled prior, has nothing to do with ignoring it or “screeching” at people who say they’d tank if they had dual spec.

We know it does not fix the tank shortage, regardless of if Rosamoon becomes a regular tank in dungeons after the addition of dual spec. That Rosamoon will make their 2nd spec a tank spec, and once in a while be a tank that runs a dungeon does not justify hurting the authenticity of the product, and game experience for all of us who expect what we were sold.

Let’s say we rationalize the “tank problem” in terms of queue time.

Do you really think reducing the duungeon queue time (very little of the population runs dungeon anymore either) from 1 hour down to 59 minutes is somehow a banger argument to those of us who are passionate about keeping the game as authentic as we can?

Now if dual spec verifiably had as wild an effect as on queue times or “tank finding time” as same faction queues does for horde BGs, then maybe I could at least see the logic, but at the same time you need to look at the pools here. The people still needing dungeon runs that are sitting in queue looking for a tank are such a minority, as are the people who desperately need this feature for PvP. Even Blizzard made the point specifically about there not being nearly enough PvPers to justify going against the design philosophy, and that’s likely true today.

Will it improve some people’s experience. Yes. Just like taking away currency altogether and giving people infinite gold would improve someone’s experience.

Does that mean it’s worth implementing? No.

Again, not always is someone being helped a good argument for something being changed.

Have you considered the the trouble finding a tank is actually sort of a built in design element? It makes you have to get to know people who tank, friend them, build relationships, so you have people to call on in an MMO. I know that when I was playing other classes, I basically would spark up fun conversations with tanks I thought were good, and end the run on a friendly note, so that I could ask them to tank later, and we’d have a lot of fun running lots of dungeons in a row when the times lined up.

That’s at the heart of what the older MMO experience should be about. What you want is an easier “get in and get out” experience, which is what the new WoW is like, and none of us want, an essentially solo-experience with nothing but a sea of random faces who you will never play with again.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Zipzo-atiesh

That’s at the heart of what the older MMO experience should be about. What you want is an easier “get in and get out” experience, which is what the new WoW is like, and none of us want, an essentially solo-experience with nothing but a sea of random faces who you will never play with again.

WoW very intentionally from day one of vanilla tried not to be an old school MMO.

Do you like not losing EXP when you die? Do you like not dropping your gear when you die? Do you like that you can solo to max level? Do you like quest based leveling instead of grinding?

[Zipzo-atiesh]

This is a red herring…

That WoW made modifications to the formula to be “easier” on MMO players of the time, doesn’t mean the 2005-2007 versions of WoW are not antiquated by today’s standards.

You see there’s this thing called time. A lot of it has passed since Vanilla/TBC.

For the record:

@Ziryus-pagle

Do you like not losing EXP when you die?

Indifferent, both are fine depending on the game.

@Ziryus-pagle

Do you like not dropping your gear when you die?

Indifferent, both are fine depending on the game.

@Ziryus-pagle

Do you like that you can solo to max level?

Indifferent, both are fine depending on the game.

@Ziryus-pagle

Do you like quest based leveling instead of grinding?

Indifferent, both are fine depending on the game.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Zipzo-atiesh

This is a red herring…

That WoW made modifications to the formula to be “easier” on MMO players of the time, doesn’t mean the 2005-2007 versions of WoW are not antiquated by today’s standards.

You see there’s this thing called time. A lot of it has passed since Vanilla/TBC.

For the record:

@Ziryus-pagle

Do you like not losing EXP when you die?

Indifferent, both are fine depending on the game.

@Ziryus-pagle

Do you like not dropping your gear when you die?

Indifferent, both are fine depending on the game.

@Ziryus-pagle

Do you like that you can solo to max level?

Indifferent, both are fine depending on the game.

@Ziryus-pagle

Do you like quest based leveling instead of grinding?

Indifferent, both a re fine depending on the game.

Why aren’t you playing old school EQ?

Why even play vanilla WoW? It couldn’t possibly be because it was the fun not kick you in the nuts MMO RPG.

[Zipzo-atiesh]

@Ziryus-pagle

Why aren’t you playing old school EQ?

Because I have nostalgia for the characters and original versions of Warcraft/World of Warcraft?

Also I never played EQ, I have no historical connection to it.

I have played games that dent your XP when you die, I’ve played games where you drop gear when you die, I’ve played games where you have to grind a lot outside of minimal quests, and I’ve played games where grouping is essential throughout the leveling experience.

None of those things bother me, but that they don’t bother me is irrelevant to this discussion. You have a real issue with going completely out on tangential nothings that are irrelevant to the topic: “Plz add dual spec blizz”. This is a feature-beg topic.

I’m only here to remind you that your time is probably better utilized elsewhere because of the unlikelihood of it happening.

I’m sure you’ll keep posting regardless, and more power to you, but I don’t really feel any inclination to stop letting you know it’s not coming either, so…shrug

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

@Egwyn-arugal

You’re just trolling at this point, buzz off and go farm fish sticks or w /e

No, that’s what happens when I am half asleep when I reply to something. I honestly missed the priest vs mage part.

Regardless you can do all those things now. It just requires you to play the game.

If you want to have multiple roles without having to respec, make more alts.

I’m leveling a paladin specifically to tank.

I have a hunter for being a dps and pvp. I’ll pay the respecs on him as it’s easily affordable to respec twice a week.
And I just don’t like healing so I’m not going to level a healer.

And dual spec won’t make more tanks overall. Or more healer. We saw this in wotlk already. History shows dual spec doesn’t really do anything for the issue.

The multitude of changes blizzard gas made to encourage people to tank proves this.

Dual spec was added, still about an hour wait for relevant content
Tanking aggro was made brain dead
Loot bags for tanks
Tanking was attempted to be made more fun by giving more CDs to rotate and be reactive with
Gear was made to change specs with you so you didn’t need to farm new gear to tank
Talents were reworked into the trispec version if retail
Exc. I know I’m missing one or two things but even with all of this. There is still a tank shortage. Because it’s a player made problem that breaks down to choices.

In-game situations can effect those choices. Like raid makeup usually using only about 2 tanks, then about 5-8 healers and then 15ish dps. Which means the high end of content requires far less tanks than both dps and healers. But dungeon make up is a 1:1:3 of tank healer dps. This means many dungeon tanks end up being raid dps/healer or not getting in raid. Which also makes people not want to focus on being a tank even if they liked the gameplay of it.

History shows dual spec didn’t really have an impact in the tank shortages.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Zipzo-atiesh

Because I have nostalgia for the characters and original versions of Warcraft/World of Warcraft?

And there we go, nostalgia is fine. Thanks for finally saying so.

[Zipzo-atiesh]

@Ziryus-pagle

Thanks for finally saying so.

Lmao, what?

At what point throughout all of this did I indicate that “nostalgia” was a dirty word?

Nostalgia and products that appeal to nostalgia are 100% a thing, I don’t see what that has to do with your lack of getting dual spec.

[Ziryus-pagle]

/shrug i never said nostalgia was a bad thing, I’m just glad you have finally admitted it.

[Zipzo-atiesh]

This implies I’ve been actively trying to avoid mentioning nostalgia, which I haven’t.

What is even your point anyway?

Are you saying that playing classic wow because of nostalgia is invalid or trivial?

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Zipzo-atiesh

This implies I’ve be en actively trying to avoid mentioning nostalgia, which I haven’t.

You have been trying to make an argument beyond “that’s just the way it was”

[Zipzo-atiesh]

You realize there can be more than 1 argument for a thing, right?

You do realize that opinions and ideas usually are made up of more than 1 thought, right?

Also I am not using nostalgia as an argument for anything. I don’t even know what you’re talking about.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Zipzo-atiesh

You realize there can be more than 1 argument for a thing, right?

You do realize that opinions and ideas usually are made up of more than 1 thought, right?

Also I am not using nostalgia as an argument for anything. I don’t even know what you’re talking ab out.

Okay so is your main issue with dual spec isn’t just “that’s how it was” or can you explain an actual in game problem?

[Corpseknife-mankrik]

People who dont want dual specs dont need to explain themselves to you. The product already exists in the flavor they like it, there’s no need to validate what is already the reigning paradigm. Its here, in its current state, for a reason.

[Zipzo-atiesh]

Because it negatively affects the impact of spec choice, is probably the main one.

Of course I’ve already given you this answer before, maybe even hundreds of times; is it not “in-game” enough for your standards??