So just that the way is was?
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Just because the game didnât have dual spec in original TBC doesnât mean every single argument against dual specs inclusion is âthatâs not the way it wasâ argument.
The argument is âit reduces the impact of spec choiceâ. Donât rephrase it. Donât reiterate it. Dont assume it to imply or mean anything else. It means exactly what it reads as, which is not âthatâs not the way it wasâ.
You really need to learn this distinction if this conversation is ever going to go anywhere (unlikely).
It means âif dual spec is added today in 2022, it will reduce the impact of spec choiceâ.
If your response to this in anyway comes off as recharacterizing this as no changes or âthatâs how it wasâ, Iâm immediately re-blocking you for the day.
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And it reduces the impact of spec choice is also entirely subjective.
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Lol, its not subjective. Its one group trying to force their will upon the common sense understanding - and failing miserably I might add.
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Sure.
The creation and design of a game in and of itself is subjective.
Blizzard created this game without dual spec, and gave their reasoning for rejecting its inclusion during that expansion.
So their subjective opinion on dual spec is the most important and critical opinion on what dual spec does to the game.
The last word we heard on it is ânoâ.
Youâre basically placing bets that even after this much time in TBCC, that Blizzard is going to cross that line despite very clearly indicating in recent topics that they are often hesitant to changes things way from their authentic state.
Youâre allowed to make that bet, your money, but might be worth putting your energy elsewhere at this rate. I mean you post in here a lot, imagine what you could get done if you didnât feel compelled to do so.
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The game getting more convenient because of dual specs is an entirely subjective stance. Telling people they dont have to use it and thus are spared from dual specs being in TBC is unquestionable objective truth.
You dont have your head on straight if thats what you really think.
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You clearly just play retail and not classic. Sure I could choose to take 5 TIMES LONGER to kill mobs⌠I could also stand in the middle of a freeway with a blindfold on. But both things only an idiot would doâŚ
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If you actually knew how to farm or grind gold, then speccing a DPS spec simply becomes a good investment, rather than a hit to your funds.
This is a very subjective statement. While part of the statement is correct that it is more of an investment. However that doesnât take into consideration of the economy of the players said server or if said player feels that they should grind mobs none stop for hours to turn a profit. I particularly donât find spending 50g to switch spec, just to make 100g from trash mobs worth while nor a good investment. Even if their are items that said mobs can drop that can also be sold or disenchanted. The RoI for my server isnât fantastic to say the least.
Regardless thatâs not the freaking point. PLAYERS WANTED DUAL SPEC and it came in Wrath. So OBVIOUSLY Blizzard agreed with the player base. So those claiming there is no need for it clearly are the minority and IT IS COMING. The request from the players was to simply get that feature THAT IS COMING soonerâŚ
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TBC is a gold dispensary - all you need is time.
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Whats that got to do with the argument about getting dual spec sooner⌠Hmm it doesntâŚ
Also a little FYI, most the people playing wow these days are much older, have real jobs and dont have hours of âtimeâ to waste. They come home, want to run a dungeon with friends. Spend at least 1 night a week raiding and if they have time, go farm some clefthoof meat to make food or do a few dailies before having to get ready for bed and go back to work the next dayâŚ
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Iâm not going to contradict this, because yes, it is true.
It wasnât true in TBC though, and that was not only made explicitly clear in actual blue posts, but the feature didnât get in until 6 months after WOTLK launch.
The discussion here isnât whether dual spec is a likable mechanic or not.
Itâs whether itâs the right thing to do to add it to an expansion that it never existed in, and thus sort of corrupting the âthis is just like back in 2007!â element of the experience. It was marketed as a faithful recreation. We have Seal of Mastery for modifications and tweaks for player quality of life, and they didnât even add dual spec in to that.
It seems clear, or likely, that dual spec so strongly is counter to the intended experience of TBC that theyâre extremely hesitant to say anything on the matter for fear of pissing people off as well as hurting the âauthenticâ experience of TBC.
Dual spec would be highly utilized and change the experience of TBC very heavily. Itâs a feature that would be interacted with hundreds of thousands of times per day, which would be a phenomenon that never actually occurred in real TBCâŚitâs very clear how adding dual spec would be immensely meta-changing.
Whether itâs a good or bad upgrade to the WoW formula isnât the question, the question is if itâs right to add it to where it never belonged in the first place and Blizzard didnât think so at the time, which is more important than what they thought after that expansion was over, in a completely different expansion.
Finally someone with a perfectly valid argument. Thank you⌠Yes valid point, if someone is looking for the full original TBC experience, that is honestly the ONLY valid point against it not being in TBC that has been posted in this entire thread. I honestly respect your stance on this.
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And you know what, I would support a âNOTHING CHANGED AT ALLâ TBC server, but likeâŚthe likelihood of us getting something like that is kinda not strong if only because I think thatâs what theyâre (roughly) aiming for with TBCC in general at all.
I think it makes more sense to ask for a SoM TBC and for that to have dual spec, in fact that actually seems way more likely to actually happen.
And heck, if that also comes with beefed up raids like Vanilla SoM, I might actually be playing there, and I wouldnât complain about dual spec in that context.
Going to assume you are healer, considering shaman.
Have you tried this strange concept called GROUPING.
Find a warlock. Keep him healed as he pulls 10 mobs at a time and have group loot on.
He gains loss of downtime and faster clears. (No drain lose or fearing to survive big pulls)
You gain loss of downtime and faster clears.
Tbcc is designed with spec weaknesses to encourage GROUPS. Itâs designed with consequences for spec changing to encourage you to play with your spec weaknesses, which encourage groups.
You can bypass them with gold sure, but there is other ways to farm.
As a hunter I have teamed up with a mage for farming.
I gather up mobs on my pet and myself then the mage starts his aoe.
While I gather them he drinks. While he aoes I FD and drink/eat up.
By teaming up we essentially removed the downtime the mage had, and increased the clear speed I had.
Edit, the best way to put it is this. This isnât retail where you are the hero of your own story. Tbc is where you are one person, and you have things you are good at, and things your bad at, only by grouping with others to cover each otherâs weaknesses and complement eachothers strengths will you succeed.
Itâs no surprise an average run of the mill raid logging hunter doesnât understand why a healer would want dual spec.
You should try getting off your very low high horse and understanding that not everyone is you.
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This is ridiculous. Itâs a complete fantasy to think this would happen in the reality of the game. This game has always been a mix of solo content and group content. That was the design intention of the original devs. Blizzard even tells you when a quest is considered group content by suggesting the number of players itâs designed for. While itâs possible to find a questing partner it never works out for long. People donât play at the same times and level at different rates. Unless you coordinate play times and only play the character when your partner is on youâll soon be out of sync. And while it will help the dps to group the help is minimal. Thereâs very little incentive for the dps player to put any effort into joining a group with a healer when doing the quests that are designed to be done solo can very easily be done solo by a dps. In fact the dps can often do some of the quests designed for a small group solo.
The devs created class specs that are only fun to play in dungeons and raids. Then they added a further disincentive to playing those classes by making it hard to respec them to do other content. For a dps questing, farming, dungeons, and raids can all be easily done with just one spec. Only pvp requires a different spec. For tanks and healers every part of the game requires a different spec if you spec for dungeons and raids. It was a design error to take the class specs that arenât popular to play to begin with then make it hard to do what is important for that class to have fun with the rest of the game, respec. They very quickly realized that design error and they changed the respec system pretty quickly
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WoW from day one of vanilla was designed to be soloable from 1 to end game.
It sounds like he wanted to be playing EQ but couldnât handle an actual hardcore MMO RPG.
This is literally the same thing many of us have said repeatedly. The trolls will tell you that there are other reasons but have not yet been able to present one that doesnât crumble under even the slightest challenge/scrutiny.
The idea that they would like things to be the same as they were in original TBC is unfortunately completely undercut by the existing and ongoing changes that blizzard has made and will make throughout the course of the expansion.
My analogy is that these die hard #nochanges and #nomorechanges folks are like that soldier in Saving Private Ryan, pushing his guts back in thinking that it will make him whole again. Sadly, itâs too late for #nochanges. They need to begin the mourning process, and keep pushing up that beach.
Itâs undercut, to be sure, but not to the point that the very concept of continuing to attempt authenticity in most/other areas is invalidated or arbitrary.
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