in that case what? I don’t really get you man. I’m trying to improve the game here with an obviously good feature with no real downsides: instant, unlimited teleportation to any location. and you’re just like, being weird about it. what gives?
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Sorry, I’d love to respond, but I’m too busy counting these delicious 
s that keep stacking up on these pro-dualspec threads.
Pretty sure every single senitment expressed on the matter has been done and away with at this point. Regardless, please keep bumping the thread to my inane responses to whatever it is you’re saying. We wanna ensure more people see it and add even more delicious s
almost as much substance as “muh pally seal”
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Which one? Seal of the Martyr?
Seems pretty cool, but I don’t remember having it in Vanilla TBC.
Must be my old age…
My point is that dual spec is a big enough change that it could have unintended impacts on game play and your response is “be specific”.
I’m not psychic dude. I can’t tell you exactly what unintended impacts. I just know that gamers game stuff and dual spec will get gamed. You know like stacking various classes and spec combos in raids that weren’t stacked before.
Exactly how - well it depends ON THE IMPLEMENTATION.
Reducing respec costs is a simpler easier to adjust and control change. It makes more sense as a non game play impacting alternative solution to your problem.
My point here is clear, you call it vague because you don’t want to hear the point.
You’re point is that you want dual spec irrespective of how it is implemented and wont accept otherwise unless someone can define a white paper on all the problems with it peer reviewed and with proof (even then you’d probably call it hard to read and wordy and brush it off).
Actually, your question is asking me “what’s 2+x”.
As I’ve claimed that we don’t know what the impacts could be specifically without knowing how such a change will be implemented. You’re yet to propose an implementation. Thus my answer is as vague as your question. You want dual spec of some kind (not defined) and I’m suggesting that that there are game changing implementations of this.
So, when you give me the “x” value I’ll give you the straight answer. At the moment your request is not defined so I can’t give you a defined answer.
You guys claim that it was fine in Wrath and therefore will be fine in TBC but I’ve been pointing out that Wrath is a different game and not a like comparison. Time and again we’ve pointed out that Wrath had very different class design and the wrath implementation would likely end in classes being side-lined in raids and such due to the number of unique niche spec based buffs and abilities in TBC that are not unique in Wrath - because gamers game stuff. It’s blindingly naïve to think that won’t happen.
The fact you then go on about my vagueness in referring to common game design shifts like “bring the player not the class” and refer to my mention of the lead game designer at the time “Ghostcrawler” as “some vague reference to some dude” shows that you are completely ignorant of the history behind the game design and the balance discussions in the community around the change you’re demanding. Look it up. I was there, this is all Deja vous to me. I was on your side of the argument at the time.
You’re proposing the change not me - YOU come up with an implementation that won’t be game breaking then. That’s not my job. My job as the doubter is to point out that your suggestion is half baked and lacking detail and amounts to nothing more than begging for a buff.
YOU be specific about the kind of dual spec you want. Again not my job - you’re the one asking for it. You should be doing what you’re asking me to do. It’s your idea, be specific about it rather than “wah wah wah it’s too hard and inconvenient to respec gimme dual spec”. Break it down, what kind of dual spec are you asking for? Same as the Wrath one? Do you want to switch between bosses or should it be lockout specific? Some other implementation? Flesh it out then, what precisely do you want? You want me to be detailed and specific, then you need to present a detailed and specific request. What exactly do you want a dual spec system to be and what do you not want it to be? Are there to be any bounds on it at all or just free switching specs in any context?
Without offering up a detailed implementation your whole request:
So it’s laughable that you level that one at me.
I suspect that you don’t actually care about the implementation because you just want what you want and to hell with the implications. And you call me the ten year old - LOL.
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please add dual spec. sink the 1000g from the economy. I would love to be able to swap from tank and heal on druid and paladin.
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Yeah and I want to fly to the moon, it would make me so happy.
In fact it’s so frustrating that I can’t fly into space. Other games have space exploration and there’s no issue with it. Space exploration would be fun for everyone we should have it in TBC classic too!
“I want it” is not a sufficient basis for a significant change to a core game mechanic.
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ooo I’ve always wanted to fly to the WoW moon. moon dungeon when??
Anyway, his question which was “How does it effect the balance exactly?” was in direct response to your original assertion that it “effects balance.”
It’s not vague at all. It’s cannot get any more straightforward.
How does what effect balance? Dual spec? What implementation of it? You haven’t defined the question so how on earth am I meant to give a defined answer.
As far as I know you’d be happy with Dual specialisation that allows people to switch specs mid combat - you don’t actually give a stuff how it’s implemented. Forgive me then for not trusting your motives or judgment.
You: Fly me into space
Me: That has game implications
You: How so, you’re being vague
You are asking for a change - you - not me - need to be specific about what you want.
Also quoting out of context qualifications I’m making about an example I gave and not quoting the specific example itself to try to make it look like I made no specific claim is very disingenuous. The answers I’ve given have to be dependent on the implementation, because different implementations have different potential impact. Seriously, does this need to be spelled out? My comments end up being wordy to cover all the basis because you’re being deliberately obtuse and evasive about what kind of dual spec solution you want.
You need to answer MY question as you’re making the proposition, I don’t need to answer yours as I’m not making a proposition. You’re proposing the change and you haven’t even defined what change you want. My only problem with your proposition is that it could mean anything and have implications we don’t yet know - depending on the implementation.
I gave specific examples of possible issues with some implementations you just choose not to quote them. I won’t repeat them because you can simply read my posts. To be expected given that you have no interest in any point of view except your own. It’s a sales pitch for dual spec (any kind) you’re making and not an actual discussion.
If you are going to interfere with everyone’s game at least outline how - otherwise it’s basically vandalism. I mean you can not seriously believe that any implementation will be fine and have no adverse game impacts? Be responsible then and put forward a credible solution to be discussed rather than “I want to dual spec”. How? With what limitations?
You don’t give two stuffs about the game you just care about your own short term benefit. Once you’ve had your jollies for two weeks you’ll go back to retail or CoD. Otherwise you’d front up with a credible and precise description of the kind of dual spec solution you think will work.
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Yes, that was the question asked in response to your assertion.
This is the most evasive rubbish.
YOU ARE PROPOSING A CHANGE. WHAT CHANGE?
Dual spec is not specific enough. All implementations are not equal.
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Yes you are.
You are making the claim - you’re demanding Dual spec.
It’s not on me to itemise everything wrong with every possible permutation of dual spec - it is on you to present a well defined solution and argue your case for change - you are defending a claim I am not.
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Try one thing then. Just one.
I did, you ignored it. Here it is again:
If people can switch specs in a given raid they will stack classes.
I know you’re response to this though - “but that’s not the only way to do Dual spec”.
See, you need to flesh out the limits of what you are asking for - that’s on you not me. Any response I give you can find exceptions for - because your request is poorly defined and any subsequent answer won’t cover all possible permutations.
Why’s it so hard for you to just outline specifically what you actually want?
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What does this mean?
Are you for real?
“what does ‘what’ mean” you’re being deliberately obtuse. If you don’t know what “stack classes” means then jeez we are on a dark road of unintelligible discussion.
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If I have two specs, I can still be and only be a Druid. That is one class.
Are you for real?
So you’re cool with having multiple specs in a given instance? Is that something we can claim? Put your flag in the dirt and back yourself dude. Can we discuss that point? Are you claiming that players should have a dual spec they can switch within the same lockout?
If we can’t pinpoint the specifics of what you’re asking for then you can just shift the goal posts for whatever response I make and claim I’m being vague - as you’ve been doing. And when I try and cover off every possible implementation you can then claim I’m being word and confusing. You’re asking for the thing - commit to what type of thing you’re actually asking for and then we’ll have something to actually discuss.
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