Why? Your guild hasn’t even cleared Karazhan yet. Don’t pretend like you’re going to go through some min-max culling of your Feral Druids when there’s top guilds currently using them in to MAIN TANK in Kara speed runs. The fastest Kara clear in the world right now had a Prot Warrior and Druid tank and the Druid cast a grand total of 62 Shreds over the entirety of the run. He was in Bear form the vast majority of the run.
EDIT: 2nd fastest had a Feral Druid with a total of 29 Shred casts.
Same reason anyone does, because the mechanics allow you to get away with it.
Currently we are making sure we have a Druid Tank to overcome spec limitations that hold us back. With Dual spec why bother?
It’s not even about min maxing, if you can solve a problem without grooming another class or spec then you take the easy path don’t you? Who wouldn’t?
Also - we don’t log everything publicly so you have no idea what we have or haven’t cleared, nor is it important to the argument.
My point is dual speccing will change the way people do things. That will have implications.
People keep saying this. But I and I think most players would rather get a group with an undergeared tank and struggle through the dungeon than not get a group at all.
Like what? What are the spec “limitations” you’re overcoming with a Druid tank? You’re being vague on purpose. Prot Warriors can DPS just as well as Feral Druids.
Unless, you know, they make it require a rested area to swap specs. Was this originally the case? I can’t remember.
So, you say it’s not even about min maxing and then proceed to talk about it as if it is exactly about min maxing?
No, I don’t think you log everything because it wouldn’t support your argument.
Umm, yes? There are no implications. It changes the way people do things by definition because they have another spec to play.
Honestly, we would do better on Nightbane being able to switch one of our tanks to dps and having the MT in full turtle mode. As it is we’re sacrificing damage for a second tank spot to handle fights like Netherspite. It becomes easier for us to just groom a druid OT…
Point is, there’s plenty of reasons guilds would value Dualspecs and those reasons interfere with the motivations taking some class/spec combos. It’s clearly and obviously going to impact on a game like TBC which is designed around class and spec synergies to a degree that WoTLK doesn’t. Not just for sweaty min/max guilds (which I freely admit is not me).
Edit:
I’d be open to a version of dual speccing that doesn’t allow changing within the same instance lockout. But then why not just lower the respec cost?
Taking the easiest option is not min/maxing. In fact min/maxing would mean we specifically groom class and spec combos for the best results. In our case we just wouldn’t bother. What I’m suggesting is people would not be incentivised to choose certain combos - which has obvious implications, even when not min/maxing. If there’s no incentives to take certain classes or specs we simply won’t, not because it’s min/maxing, we simply won’t bother.
I feel like my position is self evident and you don’t want to accepted because you like the convenience of dual spec. Heck so do I, but introducing it in TBC will break some stuff.
Wait, how many tanks do you have?
It’s not that much damage you’re losing out by just having your OT switch out some weapons and gear or go cat or whatever. Cat and bear specs are almost exactly alike anyway, so the switch for me is as easy as clicking a macro. If it’s in-combat, then I guess all I’ll be able to switch out are my weapon and idol, but I’m still doing substantial if not optimal dps.
My guild currently leveling some people who want to tank. I’d love to heal them when we do Heroics, but I’m a tank myself. I don’t have a spot in Heroics.
However, if I were to dual spec…
Throughout Kara our groups normally have one MT and an OT. Not needed in most fights but helpful in some. One group solo Tanks Kara and another we use a Pally/Warrior combo. I’m thinking we could drop a Pally or Warrior Off Tank (they’ll go dps) for a Druid to improve our damage profile when a second Tank isn’t needed. However, dual spec would make that so much easier for us. It would also change our options - why bother with the Druid option.
Do you not see a problem with this when you extrapolate it on a larger scale?
Think of your own situations, how would your options change as a guild if people could switch specs in a raid?
Anyway, does it matter? I’m not on trial here and nor is my guild. How we do things is completely up to us. The point is, dual specs necessarily change the suite of options we have. That’s a non trivial change.
Cool, would cheaper respecs help? Say 10g capped?
That’s a far less invasive change.
#somechanges doesn’t need to mean #redisignTBC
To improve your damage. Period. Who even calls it a “profile” ?
A problem with what now?
I could switch to Boomkin and provide aura, and improved Faerie Fire to my Mages and Warlocks. A Cat cannot do that.
So, you make no points other than to say words like “reasons” or “implications” or “problems” without explaining in any detail what those are and then return to this?
The only thing that’s bad in this picture is your warlock. Yikes.
Man, I remember when dual spec and dungeon finder were introduced in WotLK. Heralded as the changes that would solve queue times. The dps’ers rejoiced by cheering, eating glue, dying in fires, and other stupid things those mouth breathers do. Shortage of tanks and queue times were now much better!
Oh wait… That never happened.
I do.
Also, Kara is ten people, one more decent dps makes a difference.
But again another person who’s only argument is to personally attack someone with a different view…
Whatever. I’ve said my piece. Unless you have an actual argument as to why we all need dual spec in TBC that can’t be resolved by a less impactful change (such as lowering respec costs) there’s not a lot else to be said.
Yeah, and its pretentious.
Funnily, I actually haven’t made an argument at all. Now, I will gladly make one as soon as you present something I can argue against other than cryptic statements like “obvious implications” and “self evident.”
Nobody needs anything in this game. This is a hobby and we partake in it because we want to. We enjoy it. Saying “need” is dramatic (sort of like your adding extra words to sentences that don’t belong there).
Dual spec gives us a second spec to use in situations where our main spec might not be more appropriate. I’ll have the option of going Boomkin if my party wants Aura or maybe Tree if my party wants heals.
I want that on the go. As much as I’m enjoying the game now, dual spec just opens up more opportunities for me. One need not scroll too far down the threads posted to realize I’m not the only want who wants it.
It was something that was intended for TBC, as has been pointed out earlier in this thread if I recall. If not, it’s been pointed out to death earlier.
And finally, dual-spec does not fundamentally “redisgin” TBC. Nobody asking for a respec is asking for new talents, abilities, or changes to current talents or abilities.
I mean, respecs are meant to be a decent gold sink. When more dailies are added eespec costs will be a joke. Even just doing the cooking and fishing dailies that are in the game now you can get 15g a day with about 5-15 minutes of play time on average depending on your flying speed and quest. Gold is not hard to get in tbc, at all.
Reducing the gold sink of dual specs just makes inflation happen faster.
I don’t think I ever saw Blizzard ever refer to them as such.
But even if you made that argument, mounts are gold sinks too. But you can purchase a Rift Stalker from the store now.
Buying skills and purchasing taxis are gold sinks. You can now bypass all those costs from 1 to 58 and even start with some gold as well!
So, no “it’s a gold sink” doesn’t pass muster anymore.
Again, who cares.
“You’re pretensious” is not anargument that has any bearing on the point. You don’t like me, cool - live with it.
Correct. You’ve simply disliked my tone.
Again - live with it.
You do because you’re responding to it. Directly.
No, my noting your pretentiousness was merely my showing you that I’m completely aware you’re trying to make yourself appear smarter than you actually are.
I’m correct now? So are you now disagreeing with your earlier statement that you thought I made an argument?
Edit.
You’re right again, no point replying to you as you’re simply throwing pointless insults around. Insults seem to be what passed for discussion here…