Do you really think in WoW Classics hyper min-max meta-chasing culture that people wouldn’t be forced to have 2 raiding specs or be removed from the raid team?
I mean that’s the reason they added the Tinnitus debuff to drums so people didn’t feel forced to get leatherworking.
I’m still on board with the compromise of a tank/healing spec that solely activates within a dungeon and inside the dungeon only if they tick a box that says they are tanking and healing if the agenda of others (Not necessarily you) truly is concern for tanks and healers being in such short supply.
Can be used to farm efficiently and quickly if you don’t want to use your healer.
Yeah that’s the reason they added it. I don’t care that it was added but the reason was
I don’t see why the game should be designed for hardcore min/max guilds.
No.
The difference is that drums would be absolutely the best profession on every single fight in the game. You’re worried that Dual Spec would force everyone into a 2nd raid spec that would be used on maybe two fights in the entire game.
I currently just DPS a lot of fights in Karazhan because my healing isn’t needed, even though we only use two healers. The act of switching to Ret and then drinking to full mana and switching to the appropriate consumables + rebuffing would take up more time than we would save on a boss.
There are several good reasons why dual spec would be good for the game. Over time I’ve mentioned them all.
And as I’ve mentioned multiple times, there are poor reasons to add it to the game. The biggest being the game at this time was never designed around this system to begin with which is counter to the design of said content.
The game was designed around a system that allowed you to change your spec dozens of times a day.
You are not getting the essence of it. You are right that we (not just me) don’t want to spend excessive gold to be able to do both. What you miss behind it is what happens without the system.
Do you really think people will farm gold over and over and over again so they can queue some bgs in the meanwhile and do later raid if they have to spend so much gold for a short journey in between? Or do you think they will log out and do something else in the meanwhile.
And now ask yourself how this logging out help the game or the community in the game?! Exactly, great, you got it: it doesn’t…
So that argument is already countered!
Same here. The gold sink is reducing the amount of content. It may seems egoistic of the player and it probably is, but the more player want to play the content and the more player are able to get the needed role, the better it is for the overall community.
Many other features were added later as well but made it into TBC classic. So what’s your point here? It’s just a terrible excuse. I also already mentioned that the are trying to make TBC like TBC BUT for a modern gaming community.
I also made several times clear that it may came with wrath, but the idea came with TBC and the idea was soooo good, that they kept it in the game for the whole time since wrath. When something is so good and healthy for the game, there is no excuse to not implement it, because it’s not oldschool enough.
You’re arguing right now as if it’s irresponsible to install seatbelts and airbags in a classic car, even if you see literally nothing of it. Or as if you should still be driving 50 liter junk cars on leaded gasoline for the feeling to be authentic.
But as long as you don’t play TBC on your old pc from <2007, you’re already “cheating” your feeling. So this argument is also not stingy enough!
Then you not having dual spec shouldn’t be an option at this point. You have already admitted you can change when you please for a fee. This was the design Blizzard had in place at the time. They designed it with inconvenience in mind so you wouldn’t abuse it. Which is why it hits 50g, honestly with the over inflation of gold on the market I think it should cap at a much higher rate to keep with the spirit of what it was designed for to begin with.
Blizzard wanted choices to matter, they wanted spec identity to matter. The reason you got Dual Spec was Ghostcrawler wanting to tear down the walls on classes. He specifically went on record with his design changes saying “I want you to bring the player, not the class.” which was a core game design in Wrath for Dual Spec to truly utilize. The style in which you could do encounters on a dime with whatever you wanted in Wrath vs making meaningful choices with a high cost penalty in TBC will attest to Wrath being designed with it in mind and TBC to be the opposite.
So what you are preaching is nature vs nurture. The nature is Blizzard very much designed BC this way. However out of nurture you want to change the nature when it isn’t necessary.
Many changes to the game have been made that aren’t necessary. Seal changes weren’t necessary, drum changes weren’t necessary, chronoboon wasn’t necessary, a boost to 58 wasn’t necessary. All changes to improve the quality of the game that weren’t necessary. Dual spec would improve the quality of the game for the vast majority of players
No actually they were. During it’s day you see, Blizzard saw a huge influx of Horde Paladin and a dramatic drop in Alliance Paladin. They actually have data that proves giving one side a unique skill like that which dictates play over another does have some adverse effects on the community. It was a change to rectify that issue, a rebalance like that when the game wasn’t exactly designed for one side having the advantage over the other changed absolutely nothing on a scale that warranted them dividing the player base.
Drum change was necessary in an attempt to preserve the spirit and meta of the original game. I had a drummer and I didn’t spam it anywhere near what pre nerf would have done. Again just because you can do it, doesn’t mean you were meant to do it, or should do it. Blizzard again in their wisdom saw how badly this would flip the game upside down that to preserve the nature of their design, they placed the debuff on it. You know how many times Nintendo has re-released Mario 3 and fixed bugs and exploits? A company fixing something they wouldn’t have wanted to begin with… so unheard of as if nothing like that has ever been done in the history of WoW.
58 boost indeed wasn’t necessary, however it didn’t turn the game 100% on it’s head and change the meta. You still have to level like everyone else through the current content. While I’m not a fan of it, I still can’t find enough damage to a player that can’t be rectified over the grind go 70. I mean myself and my guild are WoW veterans and some haven’t been in TBC so long we were wiping on encounters as we leveled just as a booster would, so I give them fair point.
Chronoboon I agree with, they should have went with the buff wipe in raids.
And this isn’t about you getting a recreation of a game with a change in it’s dynamic to give you “quality of life improvement” when it was designed to be anti quality of life to begin with. TBC was designed in mind to inconvenience some while favoring others at times, and at other times favoring those who were inconvenienced last time. That was the design. Your choices, your class, your spec MATTERED in design. If you were meant to have a DS system, they’d have implemented it in Vanilla or TBC and not Wrath.
Let’s take a scenario where you want to clear a raid quickly so you drop a healer for a dps, perhaps an ele Shaman. Then for the last boss it’s progression for you, so you reactivate a heal spec and now have an extra healer for that encounter.
Okay it’s affecting game play but no big deal. Except that the impact of that choice is that the raid leader chose not to take a Shadow priest as there was no need for the passive mana and healing support they offer as the ele shammy could do more damage where needed and sub in as an effective raid healer on the fights that needed it. Players could simply run more specialised set ups on each encounter.
It doesn’t just impact hybridisation but also demand for mid tier classes with easier to obtain support features.
In TBC there are a few classes with utility that is situational and hard to spec for while other weaker classes have similar utility that is easier to obtain. This gives them a case for a raid spot. You typically end up running classes who have an easier time speccing for such utility without sacrificing their more general role. But with dual spec you can bring better classes at their primary role and have a second spec for them to handle the more niche requirements. No need to take the inferior class with baseline tools.
WOTLK was designed around these QoL changes. For instance a lot more of the utility abilities were made baseline across all classes such as every class getting an interrupt etc… These were design choices to accommodate dual specialisation.
The difficulty of implementing a dual spec system was not down to creating a UI for it which is trivial, but rather finding a way to implement it without upsetting the game balance, this is why they took their time with it and implemented a whole expansion around it.
Edit: Sorry for all the edits, typing on a mobile phone is hard and error prone. ;p
You always think you can predict what will happen and base you rationalizations on those predictions. The original game was played just fine without tinnitus. Players had many choices they could make without the change. Your argument boils down to I want the change so it is necessary. No one would be able to force me to take leather working. I’d quite easily find a more casual guild that doesn’t require it. It seems like the player base has changed. Players no longer have the ability to say no
The pally change is the same. There are many imbalances in the game. There’s no reason alliance pallys should get their imbalance fixed when so many other imbalances aren’t fixed. In fact many believe this constant quest to achieve balance is the cause of the homogenization of classes in retail. They could have waited for wrath for their fix. Simply not necessary. It’s all about I want it so it’s necessary. If you want a change it preserves the “spirit” of the game. If you don’t want it it destroys the “spirit” of the game
Even when blizzard adds a fix to a problem you’re against it unless it’s the change you want. Your philosophy is only make the changes I want in exactly the way I want the change.
You know what the irony here is? Seal of Vengeance is actually better than Seal of Blood and Classic TBC players realize that now. Prot Paladin TPS is more important than the little bit of DPS that Blood provides over Command for Ret Paladins
super agree, we need dual spec… i wish people would take me as a resto shaman with just lightning bolt but they wont posting for warcraft logs
You see the irony here is this just proves even with your superior tanking seal at that time that it still didn’t keep your Paladin as no one wanted to tank. Just as they still don’t want to tank to this day. Crazy. I don’t expect Dual Spec would change that either given the repeating trend.
It very much is the spirit of the game. We didn’t spam drums during the good ol’ days of Classic. So them changing it so you aren’t spamming drums in Classic vastly changing how it was played isn’t in the spirit of the game? Do you hear yourself here?
And have you not been keeping up with the forums about BG imbalance? Aren’t you here as others complain about lack of tanks? How would it look right now with original design? You think Horde has a tank shortage now… Those seals also weren’t what TBC was designed around as Wrath was designed to include dual spec. So stop trying to spin this around. There was no content changed specifically for either seal on either side. Wrath was built with DS in mind.
Yep and Blizzard paid for that in the long run, which is why I believe they are being far more reserved this time around in their changes than they were on Classic. That was a social experiment, and the level of BS and damage done with that is something I don’t think they wish to repeat, which is why they have made changes to preserve the original meta and not your “Buff me big daddy” meta.
When you quit the game in a month or two, can you at least refrain from staying subscribed just to post against improvements to the game like a lot of people do? I notice this with people who are dabbling into TBC from retail, as well as many bitter “No-changers” who admitted to quitting early on in Classic but stuck around the forums as some sort of bitter vengeance against people who actually play the game and want some improvements.
I have no intentions of quitting. I’ve leveled a few alts to cap, I raid during the week with a chill guild. I’m having a very good time, enjoy the very game I signed up for, as it was designed. I was here during Classic, and I’m still here now.