For me there is no comparison between a diet and a game. Perhaps for some people it is. People diet to achieve a goal. They put them selves through an unpleasant experience to achieve that goal. If you’re playing wow and the goal is to get gear and you’re willing to do anything no matter how unpleasant to get it I suppose it can be like dieting. But I play for fun. The gear is just a welcome side effect that I get while I do things I have fun doing. I will do very little that’s not fun to get gear. That’s why even though I play a lot of hours I’m often under geared. That’s why I still don’t have an epic mount.
I will tell you the difference between a diet and a good game. I have as much willpower to diet as I do to cut back on game hours played.
I don’t think the heroics were any easier or harder in wrath than in BC, or cata to be honest. The two things that were different for the wrath heroics were a, we were better players by then and b, the difficulty was short lived due to the easy raid tier and the the giant step up for 25 man gear. 25 man naxx gear is what really trivialized what were actually a really nice set of dungeons at launch. It wasn’t dual spec or lfg that was the problem for LK heroics because when they were designed to be challenging those tools weren’t in the game. I remember people fearing trash in old kingdom (even if a good interrupt or not standing in flamestrike would solve the problem) and halls of lightning in general. And let’s not mention oculus.
Now for cata dungeons lfg was the problem. They were no harder than LK heroics at launch, just really punishing for random groups with no communication if even one person did not know the mechanics of the boss or in some cases trash. If you were with a group of friends and knew what was going on they were no different than LK heroics (at launch). Again gear trivialized them as well, but by then the reputation of being hard was there.
Anyways that’s my memory of that time. LK launch till ToC was my favorite time period of the game. Good memories.
I can tell you with 100% certainty wotlk heroics were far easier than either tbc or cata heroics.
I don’t even know how you came to think that wotlk heroics were even remotely hard compared to tbc or cata for their at launch versions.
I didn’t need to use CC at all in wotlk heroics. Even when we were undergeared for it, CC was not used.
Tbc and cata heroics did need CC early on though.
TBC/Cata heroics were designed for specific group comps. Do them with the right comp and they are just as trivial as wrath heroics. Heck just run TBC heroics with a pally tank and they are basically the same as wrath heroics.
We didn’t cc cata heroics. Unless you count a few interrupts. But no sheep or freeze trap or anything like that. The one exception I can think of is the healer mobs in the stasis fields in vortex pinnacle. And if you didn’t bring cc for that you just needed a dedicated interrupt. Now I ran with my friends at the time and avoided lfg. I remember a lot of complaints on the forums, but I don’t remember much complaint in guild chats. Or, more to the point I don’t remember any more during the first month of cata than I did from the first month of wrath. They really felt about the same, maybe the trash fights lasted a bit longer on average and maybe the healer had to drink after a tough pull but that happened in wrath too. I still the the reputation of cata being hard was earned through having to many trash mechanics for lfg pugs and the absolute ease the player base had with wrath heroics the last year of the expansion due to over gearing.
bump for quality of life improvements!
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Go outside if you want quality of life improvements. Dual spec won’t help the game right now.
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OK every single one of your arguments are all opinion based There’s no proof to suggest that dual spec we’ll spec was the reason they took away talent trees.
As far as wrath goes Was wrath easier Yes However You can’t say something like dual spec caused every single bad design decision they made.
I mean if we’re gonna go by that route why did we go from super easy heroics too extremely ridiculously hard heroic cause in cataclysm.
To this very day the 1st things I think of when I hear the word catachism is Those of you that get this reference.
Break yourselves upon my body Feel the strength of the Earth.
Now could you argue lfd led to LFR ya And in fairness the specialization system itself Was not the problem the problem is they didn’t expand on it.
I mean come on at level 85 We had 51 Is talet Points I wish they had given us more toys to play with however.
Looking at it perspectively There’s always been the argument our talent points choice or illusion of choice However that’s nor here nor there.
The point is you can’t look at something like dual spec and say oh yeah this was the catalyst for every single one of the changes that they made.
I would make an argument I think After wath And if you ever watch interview lon He said this At the end of wrath.
His classes were finished they were complete they really didn’t need anything However do you think people would be OK with going an entire expansion without getting anything no they’d be livid.
So what do you do So I don’t think it’s necessarily you can sit there and say oh it’s all came from Is dual spack.
In fact I would make an argument After wrath they were kind of trying to figure out well what do we do with classes now?
As far as the whole implemation of systems I think Blizzard as a whole They need creativity again they need imagination again because they’re so stagnant they were dominant for so many years they were the most popular MMO On the market.
Like it or not and with no one really to give them competition They just did what they thought would work Some things worked out and some things didn’t.
They put all their eggs in one basket that’s what I would say That’s their bend their philosophy and they see it so clearly like in their minds.
If you just see it this way then you understand why this is fun We’re not blizzard though and that’s why that doesn’t work.
so yeah The idea that all the problems Originally all spawn from Dual speck No offense is silly.
Dual Spec would breathe some life into dead content for people that don’t consistently farm dailies etc. make it a 1 time 1000g fee. That way it is useless to you if you only swap specs once a month or something, but worth it to someone who tanks and heals or pvps and pves and swaps constantly.
#Save WoW 2022.
2 Likes
This comes down to “muh gold bro!”
Im talking about how the game strayed further away from its formula that brought the MMO to mainstream audiences, made it a pop culture icon and achieved amazing success.
Again, the game was already fairly casual in comparison to the games it was emulating. But it crossed a line somewhere and went too far in that direction over time. That’s what the Classic revival was supposed to be for most people. An escape from all the convenience and quick albeit fleeting dopamine hits.
As far my argument, well, its not really my argument. Its me embracing the reality that TBCC doesnt need dual specs - because it doesnt. The players asking for them cant cop to their elitist entitlement and so its being offered as some kind of retention system or savior.
The dual spec movement is just another stupid funking hurrah about saving crap that doesnt want, need or deserve saving.
5 Likes
OK the only thing I will give you Is that yes wath Heroics are way easier than cata/tbc Heroics.
However I mean As far as CC goes Is what type of CC I mean if we’re talking hard C CC like sheep.
Then no Now if we’re talking about interrupts Oh yeah there was tons of that like most heroics generally relied on You have to interrupt this.
And there was stunning But The difficulty curve did very much depend on the heroic you were doing I mean I can’t tell you how many people absolutely dreaded.
stone core The fact it’s the 1st thing I think about is that stupid 2nd boss Is break yourself upon my body Is feel the strength of the Earth.
1st thing I think of Is whenever I hear cata But I mean The sitter and say that you Didn’t do any CC at all that’s extremely untrue.
His people still did what I like called temporary CC like Is gouge blind Is hammer of Justice.
stuff like sheep and having to keep something permafered I’ll give you that that didn’t happen a lot and wrath it did happen just not often.
Although that is a lot to do with the dungeon design a lot of rough dungeons and a lot of people forget this weren’t extremely wide open.
Oh yeah sure there were some But not many And this is another thing people Are forgetting in tbc There comes to a point where it’s literally just gear.
I mean yes even when people have their best and slot in the rage that are in the game now you still have to be careful but once tanks start to have 20K health.
Which that’ll probably start to happen around bt and za The need for Is CC is going to drop a lot.
Because here’s the thing Is at the beginning of wrath People were not blowing through heroics like they were at the end obviously.
It wasn’t As bad as tbc or cata but I would say it wasn’t tell people got to about tear 8 Is where people Literally just started plowing through heroics.
for your average player Now is it going to be as bad as tbc no But it’s not going to be completely mindless until then.
That’s what I would say
1st off that’s all your Is that the game doesn’t need dual speck Is again there’s a very big difference Between one convenience.
And several Dual speck is not on the same level as something like lfd,lfr.
Or something much worse like the wow Token Those are not the same thing Is by any stretch of imagination.
And yes you are correct back in the day This and I’m not seeing every single change blizzard maid was good There’s a whole list of things that blizzard has done that I absolutely despise.
However What I’m saying is just because a lot of things were bad doesn’t mean everything they’ve done is bad
And I would absolutely disagree and saying that the game does not need a dual speck because here’s the facts.
There are several servers with less than a 100 people on them I mean hack their servers with less than 40 at this point And I’ve gone to several servers.
I’ll make a level one alt on different ones And even on the high pop servers There are plenty of groups that just cannot fill the rosters.
because there are not enough people to fill them Is parther not in the role that they need at the time.
And I say that as a tank Is and even I have trouble finding groups I hear it on Podcast I hear it in looking for group chat.
Well I’d like to go but I’m this And you guys need that So no I disagree and say Is the game needs duel speck now more than ever.
Please add dual spec! The majority of players want it. Ignore the gate keepers they are a loud minority.
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You mean the target audience that classic and tbcc was made for?
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Patrick Dawson: “No changes” being our guiding principle for WoW Classic made it very easy to make decisions on it. We just went to the reference client and went to that. But one thing we learned as we went through the release of the content in Classic is that [no changes] may not always be in the best interest of the players. Putting back in things like spell batching made the game feel a little less crisp. It was authentic, but it’s not what modern players want. The community today is so different from what the community was back in 2007 that it had us take a different philosophy with Burning Crusad e, where we actually started to allow ourselves to make some changes that were in the best interests of the players that will continue to develop alongside the community.
It was authentic, but it’s not what modern players want.
https://screenrant.com/wow-burning-crusade-classic-holly-longdale-patrick-dawson/
Modern players are the target audience.
OK one I’m I’m sorry Mr. Break yourself upon my body feel the strength of the Earth This can’t hear you over the 10th time I’ve wiped.
stone core Is especially at low gear level Is changesco jump off a cliff as far as I’m concerned And never come back.
And the underwater one Which I’m pretty sure I just mentally blocked out because I don’t even want to remember the name of it.
The other ones weren’t awful Only thing I will give you yes rath heroics overall were a little bit too easy aside from the very very last ones.
In icc But that’s not here nor there But that doesn’t mean that cataclysm heroics were good.
I mean it was basically just an interrupt fest Most mobs were immune to heartcc like sheep
And if you got stuck Is in a bad group in heaven forbids stone core or the underwater one you were in for a really bad time on top of that.
It was the error of How many bosses can we skip before we can finally just get right to the end.
Which was oh so much fun especially if you needed something off when the bosses that everybody liked the skip.
So yet no Just because their harder doesn’t mean they were better As annoying as doing gundrack was.
And And oculus I would still rather deal with those then stone core And the interrupt fast that cata was.
Most cata heroic mobs were not immune to hard CC… I played a SV hunter then and very few mobs were immune to trap and / or sleep. Most were also stunable.
What class did you play at the time? I know there wasn’t many banish targets for warlocks but there was a lot of humanoids to succubus seduce worked well.
I personally enjoyed the challenge of cata heroics. Just as I enjoy tbc heroics.
Please, stop posting cringe.
You’re unreadable and it makes our eyes bleed every time you post.
4 Likes
LoL you didn’t know how to glyph fear, this was endemic of the kind of junk warlocks we had to deal with in LFD as tanks and healers.