Again those are not the same thing Is removing the ability to switch or speck Is is not the same thing as removing.
Is entire barriers to raid Dull speck Gives you the ability be more flexible with your character.
You still have to get the gear set together LFR Literally removed Is the need to get an organized group of people together too raid.
There is a really huge difference there just saying
I personally think it’s probably too many for Blizzard to just throw the finger to and implement something that would ruin it for them. Last I checked Blizzard is in the business of making money and if they stand to lose people, why would they do it?
[/quote]
You say that However they are completely content to watch their game die slowly And literally let it be completely overrun by bots.
Is and ignore issues that were Lily a problem before tbc Is even launched and were obvious problems.
Is just sand they don’t have a good track record
Yes please, im poor
Just stating what I see.
Is that true? weird.
You’re right, I’m not here calling a bunch of people liars over and over again.
Or telling internet people that i hate them.
This is correct.
You still have yet to answer, what kind of person am I?
Also
Remember that one time, you asked someone to perform a task in game, record the time it takes to do, and compare back to a claim they made? Which is totally 100% not asking them to prove it.
And they said they weren’t at home, but would do so when they got home?
And you said “You’re just gonna lie”
and then they did that and posted about it, and you said.
fun times.
I have the perfect response for that. I’m sure you’ll agree it’s completely rational and informative
Well We keep posting there’s more of a chance it’s going to get put in
You’re a little late to that one, I just used it.
But I suppose you can only reach so far when trying to deflect again.
I saw you posted something then deleted it? I was hoping to hear from you on this.
Maybe if you didn’t reduce everything they said to a small box, you’d get somewhere.
I’m gonna try to take ziryus stance.
I(fake ziryus) dont think referencing original tbc holds that much weight in this conversation. I (fake ziryus) understand that you’d prefer as many things to stay as close to original as possible, i(fake ziryus) think this change is important for the game to continue feeling alive and healthy. Players don’t act the way they did back then, and one of the ways I(fake ziryus) think is important to point out is how we value time. Because of the knowledge we have now, it’s a lot easier to make decisions based on how much value we can get back from it.
I(fake ziryus) want to be able to pvp and raid without all much trouble swapping between the two. I(fake ziryus) only have so much free time, and I’d like to spend as little of my free time farming. I(fake ziryus) don’t find farming all that fun. Having a barrier makes me want to play other games sometimes, and I(fake ziryus) doubt I’m the only one that feels this way. If too many people agree, then the population keeps dropping, then a chain effect of people leaving because of lack of players could arise.
So Zipzo, While you’ve said that dual spec would hinder your experience, I(fake ziryus) really hope it won’t hinder it too much, because having it would so greatly improve my experience.
End scene.
Look, I know this won’t actually do much, but it was fun.
@ziryus, please stop reducing every response to nochanges.
the somewhat interesting thing is you ignore all of zips subjective values, but your primary want for dual spec is also from your subjective values.
Zip likes the restriction contrasted by ziryus dislike of the restrictions. pretty much opposite sides of the same coin.
Even kuma if I recall fully admits to his want of just convenience, not hidden behind other weaker arguments.
Was this an edit?
Why can’t it be doing things with others, with a perfectly optimized spec?
I’ve asked for specific details about why dual spec would be a problem and noone can give anything. Now if people are claiming #nochanges that’s fine, that’s a true reason. But if you are going to claim dual spec is somehow incompatible with TBC or would somehow be bad for the game you should be able to articulate why.
The difficulty people have with this is that dual spec is not some new idea we know exactly how it works, we know exactly how TBC works, and we’re seeing how TBC Classic is playing out. So people against dual spec are having a very hard time coming up with a reason why it would be bad that’s actually grounded in reality.
You are a perfect example of that, you seem to think you know how I would react to dual spec being added better than I do. So even in a case when I can flat out say you are 100% wrong you have stuck your fingers in your ears and ignored reality.
Oh the irony.
Did you like, just skip over my whole post?
Yes. Yes he did. He has no intention of forming a new opinion so why bother intaking any new information?
He’s been stuck on this loop for 2 months or so, the poor sod.
Careful here, though.
I want it to be close if not mimic the originals design ethics, to use an unfortunately ambiguous phrase but also unfortunately the best phrase I can think of to describe it.
I don’t need it to literally mimic the original down to coding and mechanical aspects, though tbh I would see value in a basic 1:1 experience being provided.
I think we all need to acknowledge that some stuff, at a minimum, so it’s probably more accurate to say a lot of stuff, needs to remain the same for it to even be considered a version of TBC, right?
Some feel like adding dual spec won’t compromise TBCCs “in” to being a “form of TBC”. Others might feel like adding a whole new raid or LFR wouldn’t compromise it’s classification as a remake of TBC. So where the line gets drawn is so hopelessly subjective for us in this discussion as players, and we’re merely observers to where Blizzard thinks the line should be drawn.
So the philosophical question is, what makes a game…the game that it is? How much of it needs to be there to make sure it can’t be called a different game or new game entirely? How much of it can be taken away?
What constitutes an experience when it comes to WoW expansions? A lot of things probably, but what % of that experience at the least needs to be represented for it to “count”?
For some I feel like the only thing they need is a lvl 70 level cap and TBC specific raid content. Everything else is free game, hell add DKs, LFR and more, it’s still TBC but with #somechanges.
Dat’s me! I don’t know if Kuma made the same argument, but it is there.
Ultimately the entire argument boils down to wanting personal preferences to win the day, which is fine, but kind of uninteresting. If someone relies upon the original intent of the game, they are making a #nochanges argument unless they elaborate beyond what merely originally was or was originally intended.
On the flip side, I don’t think anyone wants changes just for the sake of changing things. We have subjective preferences that point to objective results, some of which are things like convenience, or flexibility in raiding, or flexibility in PvE vs PvP, etc. But at the end of the day, we’re arguing that Blizzard ought to take up the scalpel once again and change TBCC to be a bit further removed from TBC.
On the side of dual spec is popularity, coherence with modern audiences, ease of implementation, and low practical impact.
Against the side of dual spec is counter-popularity, a lack of appropriate feel for original TBC, conflict with better changes or Dev time, and high personal impact.
These are rather mutually exclusive positions, and there isn’t much else to really say on the matter.
PS - I use phrases like “modern audience” and “feel for original TBC” because these are the things the Devs themselves brought up when considering changes.
Exactly, blizzard themselves hasn’t been clear on these aspects, so how can we expect to find clarity within actual player discussion on it?
The biggest source of frustration for me, is going back to that Blizzconline vid from feb when they announced TBCC, and hearing them speak about "Some"changes and how they were gonna keep an ear to the players to make sure the recreation made sense. It was so hopeful and reassuring to hear. Now here we are in Almost November, 9 months later, and sure they made "some"changes, and then checked right out. Zero response on multiple issues meanwhile the game bleeds subs to new world and other games / IRL. Its so mind boggling to me tbh.
A brand new game will always draw a number of people for a period of time.
Your evidence has convinced me that we should dispense with this TBCC nonsense forthwith and petition for the immediate release of WoTLKC!
/s
To be fair I’m looking forward to an eventual WOTLKC. It’ll be fun.
I am also looking forward to wotlkc, I just wish others would let tbcc be tbcc instead of a hybrid of expansions.
You’re not wrong.
And Blizzard have carefully left their options open as to what is ‘in’ and what is ‘out’.
Aside from arguments about consistency and having a well defined heuristic, the core of all positions on this topic is a debate of values - personal preferences.
That’s entirely why it never ends, there’s no resolution. We may as well discuss why blue is better than red.
Having said that, there have been a some shoddy arguments put forward that deserved to be challenged irrespective of the position being held.