Not at all. The poster is doing what they claim we are doing. The Devs dictate how the game should be played. We are just arguing that we like the way they currently have it.
The premise is wrong, we are not dictating how the game should be played. Changing the game to offer easier choices in a multiplayer game changes the way everyone has to play. You seem to not think it does?
Still on with this?
Yes???
zir made this claim, and couldn’t back it up. I’m here if you want to try. but i won’t be baited with your constant need to derail every point down to “you dont understand my fun”
Fasc, i’m surprised you defended fey in this instance after all of this ^
if you’re gonna point at zipzo for
i was hoping you would point to the others that also do this.
moving on.
I don’t think this is a true statement because fey is viewing time and money as connected.
even fey is making judgement based off of time = a gold value amount.
is this an incorrect point im making?
Sure you are, you’re dictating that people who want dual spec should just suck it up and play the way you like.
Even though adding dual spec would not prevent you from continuing to play exactly how you like but would improve the experience for a lot of others.
I think a multi player game in particular should embrace things that encourage people to stay online and playing as that’s the whole point of it being multiplayer. Which dual spec does.
You said this:
In response to Feywaif’s sarcasm about only liking one part of the game. The immediate follow-up sentence places the appropriate context:
So your response makes no sense at all as you attack something that isn’t being said.
Yes, which is why your attempts at gate-keeping are rather silly.
Ad hominems are entirely appropriate as an argument, not as a fallacy. I’ve never indicated otherwise.
Connected, but not the same. Zipzo’s rebuttal requires treating them as synonymous so that a lack of desire to do things based on gold costs is the same as lack of desire to do things based on time investment. The fact that people are more than willing to be inefficient with their time to gain things more slowly (like questing over boosting, or questing over grinding gold, etc) is more than indicative of how different the terms actually are despite coexisting in all endeavors.
The time spent is viewed as wasted on gold farming, rather than playing the game like questing, doing a dungeon, etc.
They aren’t inseparable terms, and even Fey’s comment there indicates as much. To do the things Fey wants to do, extra time has to be spent doing nothing but gold farming to accommodate it. If there were say, Healer-specific daily quests that earned a nice chunk of change, perhaps Fey’s view of things would be different because the time spent wouldn’t be on just raw gold acquisition, but on something that’s more enjoyable like questing.
Time being meaningfully spent matters a lot, and is why time != money.
I agree and I go to the extent that this includes incentivising activities that some may want to skip so that more groups do it. Otherwise it becomes like a single player game, where you only engage in the things you personally prefer.
I’m not gatekeeping, the game design is. Blame the Devs not me.
What I’m arguing is that you should supply solid reasons if you want my support for a shift in that design model which I am currently playing and enjoying.
No You put dual speck in you give players choice you give more players choice they have an easier time game to different activities.
I would play more if I had dual speck because I could have a retribution speck for farming and PVP.
That’s what people already do, it’s a video game not a job, you can’t force people to play how you want them to play.
I’ll cop that, I missed the sarcasm.
I actually disagree with this, fey claims many are trying to force a playstyle on them. Wanting to skip the parts they view as unfun isn’t the same thing.
if you could point this out, that would be great.
this needs more qualifiers imo. there are many negative possibilities to “encouraging people to stay online”
again at this point i have to bring up that both of them would rather not play the game, than play under current circumstances. How is Riger gate-keeping anything?
isn’t that enough to make the point? zip lays out the connections. fey follows that same logic when deciding if and when to respec and farm.
This is not true, I’ve pointed out that you can make gold by just healing dungeons. and if that is fun, it is in theory a preferred route.
this sounds like an incentive that would increase role counts.
…that’s why people are requesting the change.
Getting your support isn’t actually very important to most of us, or for our request. We understand, or at least I do, that many of you just flatly prefer things to remain as they are, as you are content with the status quo. There’s not much more to be said to you on that point since those of us who are in varying degrees of unhappiness with the status quo are not going to really ever see eye-to-eye.
Our interests are in direct opposition, this is known, so I’m not really going to try too hard to convince you of anything against your interests. Any change made to the game will irritate some players, just as any change not made will irritate other players. It is largely futile trying to appease all of those people.
Gate-keeping comes in the form of demanding a convincing argument before the Devs can or should even consider anything. Riger isn’t that blatant, nor are you, but others absolutely are. The goal isn’t to convince folks like Zipzo and Corpse and a few others that are just rather relentless in their antagonism and demand to be convinced, that’s just wasted time and effort.
Not at all. Zipzo’s argument only works with them being synonymous, not merely interconnected. It is the same kind of error people frequently make when discussing any other colinear variables, like poverty and education for example. They’re often tightly interwoven and they have actual interactions with one another, but they are still distinct things despite how often you can use one in a mathematical formula in substitution for the other.
Sure, you can make gold healing in a dungeon, but that’s not exactly a huge hunk of change, and that takes up quite a bit of time. Doing two dungeon runs can be easily 2+ hours of time for an average group. If you’re only logging in for an hour and you actually want to knock out some quests or do PvP or something your spec isn’t suited for… you have to weigh not doing that at all or putting in a dungeon run to delay your activity to another day…
Sure, but it is also a change and a lot of folks around here are rather resistant to those. I’m open to a lot of different considerations, but most of my most preferred methods would be… well… rather significant additions and modifications to how questing and roles get to interact in the world, which is simply not going to happen in terms of feasibility for Blizzard.
Dual Spec is a known variable.
That’s fair.
I think I misread that post.
I don’t agree with that premise either. I don’t think people are trying to force a playstyle on others.
I don’t even need to do that if you’re busy doing it yourself. My policy is that it’s best to let other people make themselves looks stupid than to actively point it out.
If I have to point it out, then that would be me assuming anyone reading can’t tell the difference.
My policy is always to let people reading threads to think for themselves. That’s why I never call anyone names, I never accuse people of trolling, and I try not to repeat myself if I’ve already said something.
Quote one post that proves your point.
Ironic that you would say this considering it paints Blizzard mods as being too stupid or incompetent to perform correct forum moderation. You wanna take offense at my supposedly calling you names while simultaneously not extending courtesy to Blizzard.
OK here’s the thing Is to make gold as a healer or a tank is not that easy because you’re assuming a couple of things one you can get consistent groups.
Too those groups don’t cost you more money than you earn Is a doing daily as a tank or a healer is miserable and terrible.
I heard all the time well you can do dailies in 1015 minutes ye ha you’re right If you’re a DPS class sure enough fighting over mobs from anyone.
Tank’s do not do a lot of damage and neither do healers On top of that dual spec would give people choice and there’s a million different reasons why people would want to farm gold.
Is not just to respect for anything I mean I can give 4 examples believe it or not there are people that don’t have their epic writing.
Is there are people that are farm gold just so Hey they have money of something’s on the auction house so they don’t have to room worry about buying the raid Is consumables.
On top of that it lessens the barrier to entry an either side a game Like it or not pvp and pve Is RA little bit more connected and I don’t think there’s anything wrong to say Hey you know what I do arrayed with my friends.
And I’m part of arena team after Is there’s nothing wrong with that plain and simple And quite frankly the argument that I have heard It’s not going to be this terrible meta and no I know you didn’t bring this up but it’s still an argument.
Is maybe the top 30% of guilds anyone else I just don’t think it’s going to matter I know cause I’ve talked to my Guild master about this.
Look, I really don’t like reading your posts, and I avoid replying to you, because it’s incredibly hard to understand what you “type”
BUT.
Fey said they like healing, so everything you just said doesn’t matter.
This discussion about time versus gold gives me an idea. Is there a way to provide spec changes to players in such a way that the only cost is time?
Like a repeatable quest to clear a heroic dungeon, or win 3 battlegrounds, or kill a raid boss. Then when you turn it in, you get your respec. Does that maintain the “authenticity” of TBC?
I mean besides dual spec, obviously.
Of course, are you so brain dead you have to post the obvious as if it’s some sort of revelation? Or is this some bizarre attempt at an insult. That’s how all changes come about. People come here asking that the game be changed so there is more of what they like and less of what they don’t. People didn’t come here and ask for the drum nerf because they liked drums the way they were and they wanted every hard core raider to be a leather worker. Did you see anyone come here and say please change the pally seal because I like it just the way it is and the change will make the game worse for me?
If enough people don’t like something in the game and want that changed to make it better for them blizzard might respond and make the change. Now it’s a lucky coincidence that the change I want will make the game better for other people too. But I’m not a martyr. If it wasn’t good for me I wouldn’t be asking for it.
You seem to have a passing knowledge of druids that anyone who leveled one to around 30 would have learned. No corrections to the extremely basic analysis.
I’m not talking about corrections to my understanding of druid talents. I mean corrections to things I can’t just look up online. Things like what you enjoy spending your time doing in the video game.
like an currency token that drops from something, that can be turned in. cool idea, but it doesn’t sound vastly different.
Lets take heroic dungeon. if it takes 30 - 60 min to clear dungeons on average, then its again just comparing value of time investment vs reward. if you can make more than 50g in that time, then it would be undesirable to take that path.
Hey fasc.
And feywaif, did you have a bad day? cuz you seem to be taking it out on some people.