How is it people are still falling back on #nochanges?
Oh right… they can’t actually make a real argument about why dual spec would be bad.
if you can quote anyone other than yourself, or someone doing a parody of you saying “nochanges”, I’d give you that, but to boil everything anyone ever says down to that is rather tiresome, and pretty disingenuous at that.
Just because you might not hold the same values as someone, doesn’t make then “Nochanges”
Just because someone makes a bad argument, it doesn’t mean that point represents no changes.
Hell, If is said
“I have no good argument against dual spec” <----- this still isn’t a “nochanges” stance.
Okay,
There we go.
After his other arguments get wrecked all he can fall back on is, that’s just how it was.
… That’s not saying “nochanges” even a little bit…
And without looking at context im almost positive that’s referencing when dual spec was implemented.
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Yes it is, it’s not an explanation of why dual spec would be bad for TBC Classic, it’s simply a statement that dual spec was not in TBC originally.
IE #nochanges
Sorry for calling it what it is, that seems to trigger some people.
That’s talking about game design in terms of goals and intent of design not saying everything must be a carbon copy. On top of the fact it was referring to the difference in design goals between 2 separate expansions.
There’s a BIG difference than saying “it must be exactly like the origional game”
And
“Any changes made should not go against the design goals and intent of the design goals that the origional game had”
Basically don’t try to turn my pie into a cake
But you intentionally took 1 small part of my post to try and change what was being said. Because you are either unable to tell the difference, or more likely you are being intellectually dishonest.
Trying to reword #nochanges is dishonest 
Not me calling you out on it.
Do you believe that Readheadchild is against every change that has been made in tbc classic, and every possible change that could still be made?
Let’s say they make a street fighter classic remake (not a remaster) of the origional street fighter games.
But they turn it into a turn based fighting game that is used commonly in final fantasy games. Is that still really a street fighter game then?
No. Because they ignored the core design goals and intent of the game.
He’s quite the hypocrite in that way, he’s okay with changes he personally likes but will happily use #nochanges when he doesn’t but can’t actually explain why a change would be bad.
if he’s okay with some amount of changes, then you can’t really claim hes “#nochanges”
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If there are changes I am for, and changes I am against, by the very definition I am not no changes. You are the one trying to force that lable on me. Because you can’t argue against my points, so you turn to insults and misrepresenting me and my arguments.
I didn’t say that though did I, I said he uses #nochanges selectively when he can’t come up with anything else.
Okay? And dual spec does not change the core gameplay(respeccing already exists) so this is relevant why?
Or are you now being dishonest and using grossly incorrect analogies?
Right that’s what makes you a hypocrite, you will happily use #nochanges when you can’t come up with a real argument. But only when it’s convenient in the moment.
There are a handful of people who are honest about their #nochanges position and while I disagree with it at least they are honest.
WHO? Who has claimed “#nochanges”
There have been a couple people who have been honest but I’m not going through this entire thread to find them.
Except it isn’t.
Technically TBCC will live on in it’s own little bubble by the end of this in the form of “TBC Era”, just like Vanilla Classic Era, so the change will never come for those who are fans of a TBC experience and didn’t like Wrath, and it shouldn’t come. You take away a dual-spec-less TBC experience from those players’ permanently, and unfairly I might add, that they can never experience ever again.
How about we add dual spec to TBCC ‘Season of the Burning Legion’, after TBCC is well and wrapped? Can modify that all people want, just like Season of Mastery.
fair point.
Dual spec does xhange a core aspect of tbc.
Tbc is designed with your choices mattering and having consequences.
You chose to be a warrior tank? Well you can still tank but your aoe aggro won’t be very good compared to if you chose a paladin tank. Or you chose to be a hunter, well your aoe damage will be garbage compared to a mage or warlock. You chose to be a BM hunter, now your traps are much less reliable compared to a SV hunter.
Wotlk saw all tanks get decent aoe aggro, it saw classes and specs with weak to non existent aoe get better aoe, it saw spec weaknesses reduced or outright removed, it saw talents made baseline to make all classes more even.
The design goal of wotlk was bring the player not the class, tbc design goal was bring the best spec for the raid, because even if the player underperformed the other things they brought helped the raid, it’s why things like the boomkin aura got a buff to 5%, why boomkins got talents for improved insect swarm and fairy fire. Because tbc was about using specific specs to complement others to Improve the groups capabilities. While wotlk was about bringing anyone you wanted.
Dual spec opens up the ability to change your groups spec combination per fight and drastically changes how groups will be formed. With how everyone focuses on parses as it is you really think dual spec won’t have an impact on how people play the game, how they form groups, who they bench for having the wrong off spec, exc?
I’ll use shamans as an easy example.
Enhance makes melee stronger, ele makes casters stronger. One shaman can now switch between these specs freely and easily to maximize the raids output with no downtime or cost based on fight or trash pulls, exc. Tbc wasn’t designed that we would be perfectly optimized every raid boss, because some favor melee some favor ranged. Dual spec changes that core design by letting people perfectly optimize with no cost of downtime to the raid.
Dual spec also removes part of the grind that tbc is designed around. Grind rep, grind consumes, grind gold, grind honor, grind gear, grind tokens, exc.
You want to sweep all the bad things it does under the rug to meet your agenda.