Dual Spec.. please?

Yes. You are.

You can either trust that multiple people are able to identify what you are doing (whether unbeknownst to you or not) and believe that there’s a reason for that trend, or continue being ignorant of your own behavior, it’s your choice.

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It is possible to reason certain changes as having an immutable effect on gameplay, and others to not, without it being an exercise in “mental gymnastics”.

This is just your way of making sure you keep the argument on “your turf” where you get to say everything is #nochanges, except the issue isn’t always binary.


Vashj World First was done with everyone using World Buffs.

Just FYI


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In this discussion of faithfulness, we really need to create a distinction between changes that affect faithfulness and changes that don’t.

What you’ve mentioned here, in regards to a change to TBCC, is a change that doesn’t affect faithfulness. There are changes that would affect faithfulness, such as dual spec, and changes that don’t, such as balancing player power to be more in-line with expected values by not giving them world buffs on top of their already heightened output.

Yes. You are either purposefully being that way or you legitimately just have an insufficient means of processing the information you assess.


And if any one could give an actual in game problem with dual spec that would be fine.

But if you are okay with some changes but then when it comes to dual spec can only fall back on #nochanges you are a hypocrite.

So it’s faithfulness now and not authenticity now?

Sorry, you guys keep moving the goalposts on me, it’s hard to keep up.

Purposefully being what way?

Daily reminder to all the babbies that you didn’t get dual spec, and you’re not going to get it.


Keep bumping the thread! Thanks! :+1:

Agreed, we don’t need a gold sink limiting our enjoyment of our class.


I disagree with that basic premise that underlies all that follows. It’s pure conjecture. It also doesn’t say anything because you haven’t made any guess as to what is portion of the players you consider “remotely serious raiders.” You will say look at what happened with WB’s but you don’t even know what happened with WB’s. It’s obvious you can’t know what happened on every server but you don’t even know what happened on your server.

How many guilds on your server raided? What was the average number of WB’s that each guild used when raiding? What was the average across all guilds that raided on your server?

You don’t know the answer to any of those questions about just your server so how could you possibly prognosticate that “80+% of every remotely serious raiders would be leather workers.”

The claim has been made that dual spec is not wanted by most players because so few have come to the forums to complain about it. If we accept that argument against dual spec we have to accept that WB’s weren’t a problem because even less people came to the forums to complain about them.

If you’re spending your time hanging out with the hardcore players which are a fraction of the players you would see a “problem” with the stacking of WB’s and you might extrapolate that drums might be a similar problem among those hard core players. But I hung out with the casual players and WB’s weren’t a problem in those guilds and drums wouldn’t be either. The casual players wouldn’t let their guild master demand they do LW just as the didn’t allow them to be forced to stack WB’s. The most common response on the threads about Wb’s was from casual players saying their guild didn’t require them and the most common solution offered to those who had a problem was to join a casual guild. If there was no drum nerf the complaints about would have received the same answer and solution from most people posting here, join a casual guild

The drum nerf was a self serving change made for the small number of hardcore guilds not for the majority of players who are casual and not for the good of the game. You defend the drum nerf because it helped you or you’re making up reasons to defend it because you think it helps your case against dual spec. Given your history here I think it’s the latter.

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It’s been done.

It’s nobody else’s fault you are incapable of comprehending the vast plethora of argumentation aimed at you, other than yours.

Given you have a history of being impenetrable to honest logic based on having been a prior “wall of no”-er, it’s not very surprising that you’re stuck in an infinite loop of requesting something that has already been provided times immeasurable & uncountable.

The terms are interchangeable in this case, actually, it just depends on how you define authenticity of course.

Neither term in this case has to mean “absolute 100% mimic of original tbc the extent of #nochanges”.

Because, again, as stated by literally everyone on this side of the argument, we aren’t arguing for #nochanges.

The reason faithfulness is the word I’d choose is because that’s the word Blizzard themselves used.

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Well, now that you’ve said all that, it makes perfect sense for them to put Dual Spec into the game and retain an authentic and faithful experience!

It doesn’t. Dual spec would reduce the faithfulness of TBCC to original TBC.

I’m sorry.


Nonsense, you just argued otherwise.

It’s been attempted, however those arguments end up falling apart under the most minimal of examination. And then it’s inevitable that the person falls back on #nochanges as they have no real argument.

But hey the challenge is still open, if any can come up with an actual plausible issue with dual spec I’m listening.

I’m definitely certain I wouldn’t want you in my BGs, it’s absolutely clear that you are an underpar player who is only seeking to serve themselves with the addition of dual spec due to their own laziness. The respec gate is actually helping in this case, to prevent other players from being subject to your mediocrity.

Not really within your power to determine that.

You’re allowed to clarify with me what I meant, but you definitely are not in a position (nor capable, it seems) to definitively tell me what I intended to argue.

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Sure it is. What, I’ll determine it again:

“You just argued otherwise.”

See? Easy to make that determination.

I just did. Two times.

Now what?

And you’re incorrect.

I don’t know, make an actual argument and maybe this will go somewhere? I’m not exactly hopeful given your track record.


Then, by proxy, you’re incorrect because my argument was based off what you said.

Well, again, used your argument. If it didn’t go anywhere, then I guess that’s something you ought to work on.

Of course you wouldn’t. Hard core guilds are very selective on who they allow to join. They’re a small percentage of the players. That’s why those who want to play with them submit to the will of the gm. There aren’t many slots available and if they leave they’ll have trouble finding another hardcore guild. I on the other hand have dozens of guilds to choose from. When my guild left my server a week ago and I decided not to transfer with them I was immediately recruited by 4 casual guilds. By people I’ve been pugging with not just in BC but since the beginning of classic. Though you or hardcore players might consider me sub par among the much greater number of casual players I’m considered to be one of the best healers on my server.

But the question is moot because even if I was on your server I would never join your guild. I’m a member of the majority of players who are casual and I would never join a hard core guild.