Does this guy not even know what the PTR is?
Like, HvH wasn’t a thing in TBC Classic at launch either. Same with the change to Druid energy.
Is this really the straw he is grasping at?
That we can’t implement something in a game because it hasn’t been implemented before?
Like what’s the point in even making expansions then?
The details of how dual spec are quite well known as is all the content of TBC, all you have to do is explain what part of dual spec doesn’t interact well with TBC. If I say taking 1 penny and adding another penny to it means I have two pennies I don’t have to demonstrate that with pennies for it to be true.
As for how it improves the game? It improves transitioning between different specs which often serve very different purposes thereby increasing player participation in more areas of the game. Just because you don’t care about that doesn’t mean others would use dual spec.
Proving the hypothetical impact of a thing that doesn’t exist with concrete provable examples is not possible. If you think it is you’re living in la la land.
Yes, so? I agree with some changes. Your spamming of the hashtag is just weird.
Imagine thinking that you could simply get people to believe you by repeating something over and over?
In a completely different context - WOTLK. Not in TBC or TBCC. And this gets us back to the so called contradiction I am making.
Something being in WoTLK does not prove it should be in TBCC.
Something being in WoTLK does not prove it should not be in TBCC.
The addition of Dual spec in TBCC should be assessed independently on its own merits.
Why is this not a contradiction - because they are two distinct claims. They’re not contingent on each other.
Example -
Someone being in France does not prove they should go to Italy.
Someone being in France does not prove they should not got to Italy.
This is not a contradiction even though they’re both in Europe. Because they’re distinct claims.
Dual Spec existed at once point in time. We didn’t make it up. Blizzard did.
Yes you do. And you don’t. Because you’re contradictory.
Asking Ziryus for an example of a change that is not currently in the game belies a game can’t change because there’s no example of it currently in the game.
It’s is self-contradictory.
A change, by definition, adds or subtracts something from the game. If it were already in the game and could be used as an example, then it would already be in the game and thus couldn’t be changed.
It’s like saying you can’t add chocolate chips to cookies because it’s never been done before and you don’t know what the cookies will taste like after you add them.
When was Dual spec tested in TBCC ptr? I’ll look for a concrete example for you from there if you can show me where it is. I’ve been on ptr and it doesn’t look like it exists.
Honestly neither of you are capable of producing claims to the standard of proof you demand.
Virtually every change gets tested on the PTR before going live. Not sure you seem to think that something dual spec would just get ninja added. And knowing blizzard it would be on the PTR a long time before going live…
So, he is saying we can’t add Dual Spec because we don’t know what the game will be like if we add it?
Sorry, but doesn’t this go for literally any change because that is the literal definition of what a change is? It is a addition or subtraction from the status quo that makes it different.
And he want’s to say he’s not #NoChanges?
What a joke!
And you’re asking me for concrete examples on something that you project may be added to ptr in the future? Would you like me to prove the existence of magic too?
N I’d like you to demonstrate you have even the most basic of knowledge of how TBC work and how dual spec works and explain why they are incompatible.
No I’m saying we need to discuss this as opinion, neither of us can prove the claim to the standard you are demanding of me. But we can discuss and draw logical conclusions.
Was HvH BGs here on the game’s release?
Let’s get something straight - you are demanding a standard of proof from me that you can’t even deliver on yourself.
All I am asking for from you is that your arguments make logical sense, and that you operate in good faith.
Yes or no, did Blizzard put same-faction batthgrounds into TBC Classic on release?
Oh, so dual spec is on the ptr for us to see it’s effects?
What it’s not?
Hmmm.
I wouldn’t be against blizzard testing it on the ptr. But that’s assuming people who try it are not bais one way or the other.
But again, there is no TBCC with dual spec for us to see the final results on. We can speculate based on history, and in that history it also shows that dual spec was against the design goals and intent of tbc, so I think a valid reason outside of “I want it” needs to be provided that blizzard agrees with, before its added.
I just know if dual spec is added to tbcc it will likely be the last straw for me playing this game.
How is this even relevant?
Answer btw is no, however it was added.
Any other irrelevant hoops you want me to jump through? And you claim I dodge the point …
Hmm… I did apply my standard of proof, given that we know exactly how dual spec works and the content of TBC it would be a very welcome addition to TBC for many people who are interested in multiple areas of the game.
I’m not sure what confuses you about that.
If so you have a different one for you than the one you apply to me.
For you, an example from any other context than TBCC is sufficient to prove your point.
If my claim is that dual spec may not end up working as well in a TBCC context as it did in WoTLK, how do you suppose I prove that. Give me an example of what kind of example would be sufficient?
Wait, so, something that wasn’t in TBC Classic was added to TBC Classic?
But how could they do that when before it was added nobody could prove it wouldn’t be good or bad for the game?
Exactly! So how could they put same-faction battlegrounds in a game that didn’t have it before, especially given nobody knew the impact it would have?
There were no examples.
No, blizzard saw reasons to add it outside of just a player want.
For example does the lack of dual spec make alliance or horde gear faster than the other faction? Does it cause players to not be able to play content AT ALL (ignoring being fully optimized, this is about even being able to do the content)?
Give a reason why tbcc should have dual spec. If blizzard agrees they will add it. And I will lose even more interest in tbcc.