Lest I repeat myself.
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I guess you’re now going to join the chorus of those claiming I advocated no changes and that I have amnesia about it.
The thing about strawmen is you only need to claim I said it - you don’t have to demonstrate it.
The fact is you and your pals are arguing against a point I never made and claiming that I contradict myself when I don’t take the position you have fabricated.
You’re not engaging with my position rather trying to silence it and recast it as something that fits your narrative.
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So, let me pull a Riger here and show you exactly how you do things.
What? When did we do that?
Sure I did. Why are you making this outrageous claim? Don’t you know that it’s strawmanning to make a claim you can’t demonstrate? Tsk, tsk…
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You continually point out how the dual spec wasn’t in TBC at launch as proof it’s bad for TBC Classic.
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I have never ever made that argument. I made the argument that the fact it wasn’t in TBC means the onus is on you to convince why it should be. I claimed (and quoted) that the devs during TBC rejected the idea of dual spec as counter the design intention of respeccing.
But I never ever said anything about the absence of dual spec proving it shouldn’t be added. You can, in my view, take a number of pathways to demonstrate why a feature that wasn’t in the original should be added now. But it is on you to do that.
And rather than do that you prefer the lazy approach of strawmanning anyone who questions you.
You know this too and we’ve been over it. Your attempt to remove all nuance to the discussion and erect a strawman in its place is utterly intellectually dishonest and manipulative.
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So are you just mad that the decision to implement dual spec was made during TBC back in the day?
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See - your argument with me is “you’re the dude who always contradicts himself”. As opposed to “when you said ‘x’ you contradicted what you said when you said ‘y’”
The later is a good faith argument. The former is an attempt to bully someone out of the discussion by discrediting them. It’s sophistry, a trick and completely intellectually dishonest.
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Going to answer this as if I were Riger:
“I’m completely okay with this.”
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You quoted me saying something - there’s nothing there being contradicted. Where have I claimed to not be okay with what I said I was okay with? It’s convenient that you leave out any context for the claim - i.e. what the subject matter was. What is it that you claim I am claiming and where have I claimed otherwise? You’re making a definitive claim about my claim (that it’s contradictory) but you’re leaving out the actual claim I supposedly made - it’s provable, just quote the contradiction you claim is there.
There is no contradiction this whole thing is you trying to show the forum that my word cannot be trusted because I contradict myself - all baseless of course. You’re making it up to trash an opponent to your cause.
Edit: I removed my justification - if you can’t even quantify why you think I contradicted myself I won’t attempt to address it.
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You could make the same argument for most of my posts 90% of the time when I make post they either one make fun of my spelling errors or 2 say I don’t want to read a wall of text.
However if I don’t do that I can’t make a good argument yeah so you could argue that point either way.
However the point stands Although I don’t in 100% agree with him attacking you as a person Not to be mean.
The point does stand that quite a few of us do think that dual spec would be beneficial to the game and quite frankly the best argument I’ve ever heard as well it shouldn’t be in because it goes against the original design philosophies.
Here’s the thing Is those design philosophy’s Is aren’t perfect and they never were I’ve heard plenty of people say classic is the best game in the world.
So how can there aren’t more people plain Is it now those servers are dead essentially As I’ve said before and will continue saying everyone including myself have given several reasons of why dual specs should be put in the game.
The thing is You guys don’t see it the same way we do Is nobody likes to farm it’s not fun Is especially when you want to do something else for fun.
Is any exact type of arguments that you’re making ironically enough This is one of the reasons why retail is so awful.
Is the same arguments your making is the same reason my blizzard kept on insisting Things like Switching Covenance, And conduit energy existed.
Like it or not Is the same reason why your original legion artifact weapon was cough cough permanent for a while.
And the same argument Is was used why respecting your azorite armor why the cost kept going up each time you did it.
So If you really want to go the route of go back to retail well let me ask you this is what you’re arguing not an exact game philosophy from retail?
There are differences and obviously retails not the same game however That core argument still stands.
You have to do something you hate To get to the fun part of a game that you want to play.
Or at least try something new What are we seeing happening right now people just aren’t going to farm the gold because it’s not worth it for them or they don’t have the time to.
The only difference is in retail instead of farming Is gold it’s a different resource So let me ask you this what’s the difference.
Riger, my man, you know Ziryus belongs in the same bucket as those other fools…he just hides it better. Do yourself a favor and +1 your list (maybe 2 with this shaman clown).
Is why are we fools because we want something for the game that would be beneficial.
If you want somebody to change like it or not this is the best way to do it cause it’s the only thing that blizzard actually sees.
Even if there’s a 1% chance of something changing I take the 1% cent of 0 and sitting on my hands and doing nothing.
So do tell how does that make us fools if you want something to change the only way to do it sometimes is to say your opinion.
So how exactly Is are we fools for having that opinion whether it’s something that people agree on or not.
Yup; maybe one you get over your goldfish memory problems you’ll actually recall having conversations with people. Otherwise, just going to keep replying to you in a likewise manner and tell you, “Hey, sorry, but I completely forgot everything you said a couple of posts ago in a conversation we had which means we never had that conversation.”
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No I remember the first time you claimed I contradicted myself. But even then you never actually presented a contradictory claim. You simply claimed I contradicted myself.
Here:
Solotov said:
And he emulated my own views too.
You replied:
To which I replied:
Sorry but how did you show me I was contradicting myself?
You seem to think I am arguing for no changes and some changes at the same time. You seem to think there is an inherent contradiction between arguing for some changes but also arguing that changes should be in line with the original designers design intent. I explained in detail why there is no contradiction there. Games aren’t perfect as I pointed out - TBC is not a perfect embodiment of its designers vision. There is room for change and improvement without contradicting the core design vision.
The fact that you can’t take a statement to mean anything other than a binary outcome is not a weakness in my claims but rather in yours. You have categorically failed to produce a single contradiction in anything I have claimed and all you are doing is running a baseless smear campaign to cover the fact that your arguments are weak and lacking nuance.
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Sorry, I completely forgot about our entire conversation.
Now spend some time reminding me.
I never said I forgot, I said you never demonstrated a contradiction - and you didn’t, you made it up.
Instead you put the onus on me to prove my innocence rather than present anything at all to back up your assertion about me. And so now I have wasted my own time and resources AGAIN to combat your completely fabricated smear campaign. While you sit smug and mock.
Go away - sick of defending myself to you. I owe you nothing. I’ve given you way to much already. Pearls to swine. You have no interest in discussion or engaging with points that have been made - you’re just stamping your foot demanding buffs while scoring points against anyone you perceive as in your way…
Anyone attempting to discuss with you and a number of others in this thread in good faith is destined to waste their time.
This forum and this topic is a seething hive of unmoderated internet trolls.
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Hey, now you know how I feel when I bring up past conversations and you suddenly don’t remember them. Now you know exactly how it feels to talk with you.
Why is it on me to demonstrate that you are lying about me? You knew what you were doing and now you’re being smug about smearing someone with lies? I didn’t quote the original conversation because I wanted you to be a better man. Not lie. I didn’t forget the conversation I thought it was on you to demonstrate the truth of your claim and not on me to continually demonstrate that you made the claim up.
It’s culturally acceptable on this forum to single out people opposing your view that are getting some traction and then simply make false derogatory claims about them and their positioning in order to sway the crowd and get your way. This situation is just that. It’s a toxic norm.
You think it’s perfectly fine to make utterly incorrect claims about a person with no evidence at all and then have them defend against the rubbish claim? Get lost.
If you claim I contradict myself then you are obliged to demonstrate how, else it is complete bull.
My guess is that the personal attacks were triggered by my discussion points not fitting with the narrative of me being a recalcitrant #nochanger. So you successfully arced me up by making up a claim that I always contradict myself. I took the bait. Then when I fought back at the false claim you can sit back and point at me making out I’m some zealot. It’s an effective strategy for neutralising an opponent - it’s also morally bankrupt. It shows you have no interest in this discussion except to get what you want.
We actually started getting somewhere in this thread, finding some common ground and interesting compromises in this discussion but you and a couple of others couldn’t stomach it. So you’ve sabotaged the productive line of discussion by targeting one of those in it (me) and trashing them. Bravo. /golfclap Whatever it takes to get what you want eh.
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You can’t even recall the details of our most recent conversation.
There’s is absolutely no point in trying to have any conversation with you if you can’t even remember what you said to a person just two posts prior to a conversation we’re having now.
You have goldfish memory.
This demonstrates the value of your contribution - insults, fabricated claims, and smug personal attacks. Absolutely indicative of everything toxic about this forum.
We are done. I’m blocking you for 24 hours have a think about your pathetic childish behaviour.
We’ll engage again when you are ready for an adult, honest, and respectful discussion.
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