Dual Spec.. please?

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
3245

So your saying because it’s 2021 we should ignore the very clearly defined design intent behind tbc design and throw it all out the window for tbcc…

You realize this is a CLASSIC game right? This isn’t wow 2.0 it’s not meant to be wow reimagined, it’s meant to be a recreation of on ald game that respects the origional game design and the intent behind that design. I’m not saying tbcc needs to be a carbon copy of tbc, but it should respect the design goals and design intent of the origional game. There was a very clear no given for multi spec being added to tbc back then, and multi spec is what dual spec is.

It was very clear the devs of tbc did not feel multi spec fit into their design goals of tbc. They made a lot of changes from tbc to wotlk, let tbcc be about respecting the design goals and intents of tbc, and leave out features that clearly went against it. And when wotlkc comes out, I will be all for dual spec being added because the design intent for wotlk was to remove barriers and restrictions that tbc had and used as RPG elements, all to make the game more convenient to the masses.

But that convenience goes against clearly defined design goals of tbc in terms of dual spec.

3 Likes
3246

Having a different opinion than you doesn’t make it hate fueled.

I’m using logic, historical evidence, and facts to back my argument.

You’re using “I want it so I should have it” to back yours…

3247

OK one you make it sound like this design The game every single part of it was designed Is with the idea that classes could not have dual spec.

A probably awesome wasn’t designed with the idea of people clearing the rage in an hour is either.

The MMR system This for pvp They also never intended for drums to be chained either And didn’t intend for people to level a profession drop it and level it again every single time they get a new piece of gear That had sockets in it Or rings.

This they also never intended for world buffs to be a meta either The list goes on what I’m saying is this.

Yes they made a post about it yes that was the case back then however the game is differently played now and on top of that we wouldn’t be dealing with a lot of problems we’re dealing with now.

You weren’t dealing with 100% hoard servers in original tbc.

You weren’t dealing with a tank shortage which is Is a game wide problem either And as far as designing raids around dual speck I don’t think they put that much thought into it.

This like it or not blizzard is not that pre planning That’s one thing that has not changed over 15 years blizzards and blizzard’s intent when the implementing new feature has always been this is cool.

The core design philosophy as you say at least in my mind for TB C was this This is classic but better.

And as far as class balance goes OK sure Are the classes better than an original yeah but that doesn’t mean that class balance isn’t still a bloody mess.

Oh yeah we went from Warriors and rose being broken to Warlocks and hunters being broken.

And yes meme specs have gotten better but it doesn’t mean that they still aren’t good or they have to try a lot harder just to be on par with maybe 20% of what the top DPS classes are capable of.

When a warlock can literally just press 2 buttons and out DPS Is them by what a Is 25% at least.

Now if you’re asking me personally would I be completely OK if they brought in ras talent tree.

Oh yeah it would be bloody hilarious No obviously they’re not gonna do that but my point stands if you really want to make the argument that there’s this hardcore game philosophy.

I would really like to know what game philosophy do you think Does not allow dual speck.

What part of this game do you really think they design rates With this idea that well this is so much harder because people can’t switch specs on the fly?

Or no this mechanic would be too easy if for some reason you could have people switch Is specs in the middle of a run?

I’ve set it before and I will say it again if you cannot kill a boss without dual speck you’re probably not killing it with.

Because either way yet have to do the mechanics It doesn’t matter what spec you are you still have to do the mechanics and that’s how you’re going to kill the fight.

Is plain and simple So what is this philosophy that you truly feel that is bully feel that is so engrained in tbc.

That you think duel speck would destroy because as far as I see The way we play the game and how the game is developing now.

Dual spec would help a lot with the problems that the game has it would not solve them no them no the only thing I can solve that is well.

Is more people coming to the game which also dual spec would help with And blizzard dealing with the bots but I would say at this point that’s just unrealistic.

3248

And if it was he should be able to explain in detail exactly why dual spec would not interact well with TBC. But he can’t because there isn’t anything about dual spec that somehow breaks TBC.

1 Like
3249

Yes, because we aren’t using the TBC design intent, we’re using the TBCC design intent.

/thread

1 Like
3250

You thought you did something here but all you guys are doing is proving that people like you are the reason retail is the way it is. Youll just keep asking for more convenience for the sake of it and if they keep listening it wont be TBC Classic or WOTLK classic itll just be SHadowlands 2.0

4 Likes
3251

Am I supposed to just know what “Retail is the way it is” is supposed to mean? There are a lot of things associated with Retail, with the whole lot of them being neither universally good nor universally bad.

If you want to be taken seriously, stop treating Retail like some known boogeyman we all agree should be avoided.

None of this follows.

TBCC is whatever Blizzard hands us with that label. If WotLKC comes out in another 1.5 years and we get Death Knights, Naxx 2.0, Ulduar, Transmogrification, Retail Graphics/Art, and all of the limited attempts restrictions lifted from ToGC and ICC… THAT IS STILL WRATH OF THE LICH KING CLASSIC BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT BLIZZARD HANDED US WITH THAT LABEL.

There is no TrueClassic™ paradigm or ruleset or orthodoxy.

TBCC is not TBC, and the Devs have already stated their intention to deviate, change, alter, and shift away from copy-paste of the original. Clinging to what was avails you nothing. You only have an aesthetic preference to counter our requests for QoL improvements to the game. Threatening us with Retail means absolutely nothing.

1 Like
3252

Free respecs should happen.

Main reason being that the current respec cost just suffocates participation and prevents people from playing

The second reason being that the gold sink that exists only punishes players who actually follow rules, tons of people have thousands of gold from vanilla gdkp/buying gold in vanilla, tons of people have gold from buying it in tbcc. You are only punishing the people who make their gold legitimately.

The game would be better off with free or extremely reduced respec costs.

2 Likes
3253

Classes all feeling relatively the same. No real talent loadout just some bland screen with 8-10 “talent” choices on it. Mindless content thats easy to complete (aside from raiding). LFD, no communication between players. No sense of server familiarity because every sever is just cross platform so you rarely see the same people.

I mean considering that a LARGE portion of players have been specifically asking for Classic and TBC classic because of how awful that player base (and most players) find retail WoW it is

What would be the purpose of re-releasing these games that fans have been asking for if youre going to implement so many streamlined changes that the game slowly becomes unrecognizable and eventually becomes the version of the game a large majority of us dislike? (retail)

Sure theres no set in stone ruleset for what classic is but i dont want streamlined changes that make the game easier. And its surely impossible to recreate the games as they were considering 15 years of game knowledge but if they do make changes they should be in an effort to preserve what the games were. Not to move them forward into “better” versions and iterations and adding features that later versions had into old versions. Better is objective, better for you might not be better for everyone else.

Getting gold to respec is so monumentally easy i cant imagine anyone being restricted from this

2 Likes
3254

Here’s an example, I was PvP spec this weekend, people threw together a karazhan pug last night so I respec’d, 50g, tonight I have 5’s, that’s 50g, tomorrow I have raid, respec back to PvE, 50g.

So that’s 150g just in respec cost, I got edgewalker long boots, 2 orange gems + surefooted = 200g

I’m not complaining… I’m just saying that someone who isn’t like me, who doesn’t have gold or time to farm money every day just to play simply wouldn’t have respec’d… they wouldn’t have been PvP spec for the weekend, they wouldn’t have gone to karazhan, they wouldn’t be doing 5s tonight, and they’d be logging in to raid tomorrow and vacuum loot.

I agree gold is easy to make… but that doesn’t matter, people just won’t participate because they don’t want to spend time farming in order to afford to participate.

1 Like
3255

If people don’t want to spend the time farming to participate in a certain part of the game, they probably just don’t care enough about it for it to be worth their time. People have no problem farming mats/gold for raid consumes because optimizing their performance in raid is enjoyable for them. I don’t see any threads asking blizzard to reduce the materials needed for consumables or enchants.

In the case of your example, you respecced out of PvP because you wanted to go to Kara. Whether you wanted to go because of the potential loot (grats on the boots btw) or because you just wanted to have fun with the people throwing the run together you viewed the experience as being worth the respec cost. Additionally you view getting in your 5s games for the week and your raid on Tuesday as fun or important so again the respec costs are justified in your eyes.

3 Likes
3256

100% justified to me, I’m just saying that…

A. Respec costs punish people who follow the rules and don’t cheat

B. There would be more participation in every aspect of the game with reduced or free respec costs.

I’m fine with respec costs, if I wasn’t I wouldn’t pay for it.

Thank you those boots have been eluding me!

3257

If they did something as simple as reducing respec costs from the trainer that would be a reasonable compromise for me. That way players are still tasked with going through the respec process without burning as much gold.

1 Like
3258

Retail is more popular than Classic right now.

What are you implying about retail?

1 Like
3259
  • Diff classes/same feel: My last iteration of Retail was WoD and none of my characters played the same so this requires a lot more specifics.
  • Talent trees: This is just telling me that there is a different UI, not how the old trees (which ones? TBC era? Wrath era? Cata?) were better than the new trees.
  • Mindless content: Have you played at all in Classic or TBCC? This seems hilarious in the face of mindless questing with no real challenge, the fact that so many of us spam ran dungeons to level up and acquire rep, sometimes while 3-4 levels below the mobs, and minimal challenge outside of raiding. So if Retail also has easy questing, simple fetch/kill goals, resource acquisition, etc, then the formula hasn’t changed much since Vanilla.
  • Lack of chat in LFD: This is entirely on players. I did Heroic SLabs last night with guildies and we chatted like crazy on Discord. I did Heroic Ramps earlier with 3 PuGs and outside of declaring marks at the start of the run, no one said anything, including the guildie and I. I’ve made RealID buddies via LFR/LFD. Some people really aren’t very social, but this is going to be very apparent when the content is easy and/or has little down time. If I have to drink a lot between pulls, chatting is bound to happen, we have time to do so. If I’m chain pulling and no one needs to stop and it is easy enough… which most dungeons are even in TBCC… people aren’t going to say much.
  • Lack of familiarity: Unless you play on a small TBCC server, you feel like this already. Whether on a big Retail server like Mal’ganis, or Classic’s Fairbanks, or my current TBCC server of Atiesh, I see guilds I’ve never heard of all the time. The only familiarity I see are a few common crafters plying their trade in chat, and the half dozen or so trolls constantly bickering about stupidity.

So taken together, you’re not really selling me on Retail being any kind of big-bad-problem. All the problems you listed are either completely unsubstantiated (classes and talents) or already present in Classic and TBCC servers and content.

If this is all you have, Retail is already here.

A lot of people asked for Classic servers because of nostalgia and comfort with the content. Doing Ulduar the first time was a big pain in the butt thanks to difficulty and unknown factors in strategy and ability. Doing Ulduar in a Classic setting will be 100x more relaxing, even doing the harder stuff like Keepers on hardmode or Algalon.

That SOME people hated Retail doesn’t tell me that Retail is itself a boogeyman I should care about. Some people hate dogs too… and fine cuts of steak… and beer… and comfy silences perfect for reading… and a lot of other things I like.

That’s a question Blizzard has already asked themselves, minus the doom and gloom of anything kinda-sorta looking like Retail. TBCC with Dual Spec wouldn’t be unrecognizable. TBCC with Dual Spec, xmog, pet tabs, and mount tabs, wouldn’t be unrecognizable. TBCC with a secret final hardmode phase for Illidan and a hardmode only boss fight with Maiev would a substantial departure from TBC, but it wouldn’t be unrecognizable as TBC.

Removing Black Temple entirely would make TBCC unrecognizable as TBC.

Treating these things as all the same is just… silly.

This is your ought, it is not Blizzard’s ought.

Blizzard has found that they can not only bring us old content, but they can tweak that content much to cheers and adoration of the playerbase (or at least the portion they listen to).

Don’t mistake your personal ought for what Blizzard must or must not do. There’s a reason Blizzard took pains to explain that TBCC was NOT going to be guided with 100% Authenticity at the forefront. Blizzard already made their decision to streamline, update, change, alter, modify, and fix what they want to. It is only a matter of what Blizzard thinks fits best for the next change.

You already made a thread about this before and restating your unsubstantiated premise doesn’t make it true, nor does it follow that “not caring enough” is reason to dismiss requests or feedback.

This game isn’t designed exclusively for those with an arbitrary threshold of fandom in their soul.

3260

Sure it does. Why should we make the game easier and more convenient for the people who don’t even care enough to farm 100g? Like I said people have no issues farming gold/mats for raids but they have issues farming gold to respec for PvP? Where are the threads asking for enchants/consume mats to be reduced/removed??

6 Likes
3261

An interesting rebuttal… “nu uh!”

How much gold must someone be willing to farm to have their voice matter? What if they already accumulated the gold? What is the wealth cutoff to have any say in the game?

3262

People that don’t want to farm for enchants or consumes just … don’t. They raid without them. It’s harder to get away with raiding in your PvP spec. It’s a way bigger detriment to the raid.

3263

There is no cut off because the choice to resepc can be done an infinite amount of times, the only thing that affects how much gold is spent is the player. If they’d like to experience different aspects of the game in an optimal spec then they are free to farm the gold to do so. If the gold is already accumulated then the player is just lazy, there are plenty of add-ons that help with changing specs/action bars so literally all you have to do is run to a trainer.

Should players that have farmed mats for 1000x flasks of relentless assault be making posts asking for them to require less terocone? Or should players that have farmed 30+ exalted reputations be asking for heroic keys to be available at honored?

2 Likes
3264

None of this actually answers my question as to why you think you have a premium on what people are and are not allowed to ask of Blizzard. All you have done is restate your conclusion.

How much gold/playtime/effort must someone put forth to be allowed, according to you, to make requests for changes to the game?

I see no reason why someone who did so shouldn’t.

Same as above, why not?