And those exact same people will be the first to jump ship now that it is no longer satisfying because they didnt have to invest anything into getting results.
I signed up for an MMORPG, not an MMOXXX
1 Like
Yep and the same thing happened to pvp gear over time. The more convenient it got, the more of an issue it became because my 9th level 90 alt cant compete gear wise with the guy that plays 1-2 characters all season.
Welp, lets just homogenize the crap out of it and turn it into a lootbox RNG fest.
2 Likes
nobody needs to do that. some people want to do that, and they should pay for it.
2 Likes
His routinely never do, and when you use his analogy against him, he will accuse you of trying to stretch it.
It’s all or nothing for the purest.
My company does its best to not tell the customer no, but we like money so maybe that’s the difference.
Please enlighten us on your expert knowledge of the Blizzard code.
If you want to respec, you need to pay, right? That’s the whole issue and the reason for this thread. Thanks for pointing onto the obvious, I guess. Hopefully it helps you to stop those pointless comments all the time. 
1 Like
you don’t need to pay if you don’t respec. respeccing is entirely your choice, especially when you’re doing it several times per week.
1 Like
I made no claim about what was the situation for the code, I said what would be REQUIRED given the statements the other person claimed in the post you conveniently left out when quoting.
Really good cherry picking out of context to not even present the picture you think you are.
3 Likes
I heard retail there is no need to pay to re-spec, and you can have all specs available.
1 Like
That’s true, but has nothing to do with the topic. The need to respec is as obvious as the need to pay for it, which is the core issue and the reason why we are asking for dual spec.
The only pattern I see here is, that people always come up with the same arguments, that weren’t any good at any time.
And if anything, it were the devs who argued about the need of talent trees. It was the same idiotic argument they used when the removed reforge again, which was a very good system.
Retail isn’t bad of all the helping and wanted features, it’s bad because of pruning, the reduction of talent trees, the unification of classes, the unfun class designs, the missing balance and most of all, because of the low budget content with maximum grind.
Imagine you have 2-3 hours time to play a day. When you need 90% of that time for the never ending grind, just to be able to enjoy the content you want to play, you will stop playing very fast.
And that is the reason why retail is barely played anymore. I mean, if the rest would at least be fun like great class design and balance, you would maybe deal with it somehow, if you have nothing else to do with your life, but not even that is given.
So when we come to TBC, it is a lot better in terms of class design, but I don’t want to farm dungeons or other gold content, to be able to play arena AND raid in the few hours I can play a day. So instead of playing the game, I play something else or enjoy stuff offline and just log in for the raid, so I don’t have to farm the respec fee. That helps nobody. Not you, not me and not the game.
So why wait for a helping feature that doesn’t hurt anyone and will come anyways? Is it not in your interest to keep the game alive and to have as many people to play with, as possible?
Beside the fact that the expansion where dual spec was implemented, was also the expansion that had the most active players. So how does that fit with your “retail memes”?
Cata had more players for most of its life so you are factually wrong there. You keep mentioning wrath having the most players while ignoring that that is when the number of players started to flatline before beginning the decline following two expansions of explosive growth.
So looking at the data it clearly shows that wrath is when the game stopped appealing to more people and instead flatlined before a significant decline. See I can cherry pick interpretations of data to support an argument as well!
2 Likes
Beside that it isn’t true, Cata also had dual spec, so what is your point?
An image that was released on mmo-champion during WoD:
https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6995089/world_of_warcraft_subs.0.jpg
They used published sub count data that was common back in the days. At some point Blizz stopped to mention the sub counts, obviously for a reason. But I linked it to show you, that it had the most subs during Wrath.
See Demon’s post about the lowest common denominator. MMOs were at there best when they were niche. WoW, even vanilla, was always marketed to the casual player. The difference is, while they removed many of the “quit points” (full player loot for example) they still made you “work” (play) for everything you earned. There were no gimmes.
This really started to change with Wrath. Yes, that’s when the subs peaked but that was more than likely a carry over from the game being a pop culture icon and Arthas (popular figure from the Warcraft RTS games which I also loved). There’s no reason this game couldnt have hit 20 million subs if the devs had figured out that what they had going for them was a nice balance between challenge and accessibility as well as fostering a good social environment.
The scales tipped in Wrath and its been downhill ever since and a meteoric drop at that, especially after MoP. What mistakes were being made? Catering to entitled attitudes like this one instead of just focusing on making a really good game.
Original TBC had no dual specs - Fact.
TBC is much easier in 2021 - Fact.
The lack of dual specs is not realistically preventing or hindering anyone from accessing any TBCC content - Fact.
Dual specs in TBC are not necessary - Fact.
You cant want something without implying you need it or simply feeling entitled to it - Fact.
If its completely unnecessary and you don’t need it but still want it for purely personal reasons its fair to suggest you’re working from a place of entitlement - Fact.
There’s no need for Blizz to cave here and give everyone an extra easy time in TBC.
2 Likes
You are right, image I was looking at was wrong. disregard that point.
Doesnt negate the rest.
That’s maybe your opinion, but very subjective.
TBC has already added a lot of other features that original TBC didn’t had - Fact.
But wanted - Fact.
We wouldn’t ask for it, when we wouldn’t use it - Fact.
Do you still want to continue this laughable, idiotic and boring crap? So far, we haven’t seen a single serious argument against dual spec, that’s also why it made it into Wrath.
But we have seen a lot arguments that makes it wanted already now. Why wait?
And the best thing is: It wouldn’t even affect you. So why are you against something that wouldn’t bother you but help a lot of others? Doesn’t make any sense!
Probably not worth wasting your time on this one.
They are the living embodiment of the frieza meme “imma pretend I didnt see that”
1 Like
What argument? All you guys have is a bunch of quacks with their quackademic theories that attempts to justify their greed and/or insulate it from criticism if not call it something else entirely. Throw in the usual Troll propaganda that paints any and all disagreement/dissent as entirely negative and completely unreasonable so they can play victim on top of it all which just makes them all the more “justified” in their pursuit. Then just follow it up with full blown projection where you accuse dissenters of everything you’re guilty of and seek refuge in consensusville.
Pretty standard stuff when youre calling for game changes not everyone agrees on and you probably shouldnt be asking for in the first place.
TBC doesn’t need dual specs. Just the facts. The players might “need” them but there’s already an in game solution for this and if they dont like it they can wait for Wrath Classic or go play Shadowlands. I aint bothered if people leave over dual specs. Dont let the door hit you on the way out.
Yeah I have a week and a half of being repeatedly trolled for having the audacity for preferring TBC without the extra convenience. Ill learn eventually.
2 Likes
The rest of that point that was totally wrong as the the sub count still grew during wrath and reached it highest at the end of wrath before it went back with Cata?
All I can read out of it: What ever the issue for dropping sub counts starting with Cata was, it wasn’t dual spec!
You will find a tone in the 2155 posts so far. A few of them are mentioned in the opener post. Enjoy!
Do you remember a concept called “slopes”?
Really? That sounds pretty inconvenient.
Just remove or drastically reduce the respec cost or add a CD, which would leave a small hurdle to respecing.