No one has ever claimed dual spec fixes the tank shortage, just that it improves it.
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Except it probably wont. And ive already explained why it wouldnt.
And yes people have claimed that “adding dual specc allows more participation in dungeons and content because we dont have to farm for respec gold”
Nope, you don’t speak for me ( a pure tank). I enjoy the fact that my skillset and spec is needed. It’s the tradeoff I get for staying in that spec. Having everyone be able to switch on a whim devalues healers and tanks and just makes it easier for DPS to be picky and toxic in groups which is exactly what’s happened in retail.
Make friends with tanks and don’t be a jerk and you’ll never have a problem finding one. The people complaining are most likely toxic DPS who have been put on ignore by many tanks.
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Exactly this.
I have a tank friend in my guild who helped me get my attunement done for P2 a while back, and I am returning the favor by making his reputation farms easy by being a good dps with strong utility, situational awareness per the dungeon we are doing, and strong dps.
Just finished another shattered halls tonight getting him the last of the rep he needs for exalted for thriller for his tanking item.
He scratched my back. And I’m scratching his.
You want a tank to like you? Show you know what your doing and help him accomplish his goals as well. I have run more content for helping tanks get gear/rep than myself.
Make friends, it’s a GIVE and take relationship, don’t expect them to endlessly help you for nothing, help them with stuff as well. Heck through all of classic I gave dmt buffs to many tanks and healers for free to build my reputation on the server. And even with my server being “dead” I don’t have an issue getting tanks and healers. Heck I have a harder time getting dps that are decent more often than I do getting a tank or healer. Because I made friends.
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Except it doesn’t there is no part of the fact that someone can switch from a reptile to a prop palli or a fury Warrior to a prop Warrior.
Or whatever that does not devalue you you are still a tank at the end of the day Is thus the term main speck and off spek.
I’m a protection paladin if someone had the freedom to respect from a holy pallet to a praw pallet that certainly does not devalue me as a protection paladin.
Because at the end of the day I’m a mainspect tank maybe I’m an offspec rat maybe I’m Is off spec holy.
But anyway you look at it in no way does that devalue you it doesn’t take away from the fact that you’re a Tank.
If anything it gives you more freedom to try out different things you know player choice
Seriously I don’t know who you’re talking to but I have never ran into someone that has ever said tasked wrath of the litchking or before.
Oh and by the way fun fact When dual spec came in the game There were a lot more people taking you know how I can tell you that because I saw it happen.
And I can tell you that because I was one of them you know why I never want to try it before Well what if I realize I don’t really like changing when I enjoy DPS
But you know what because of dual speck all the sun Hey I have an option if I don’t enjoy it it’s just my offspake and I don’t have to worry about it.
Because of nothing else I still have my main speck This whole class uniqueness thing you’re not this most special snowflake that you think.
I’m a protection paladin guess what there are millions of protection paladins that are probably the same spec.
As I am You know why there’s only certain things that work Some classes have a little bit more flexibility because the way they scale with gear in what not.
Like for a warlock it doesn’t really matter what spec you go you’re going to do good damage because you’re a warlock.
Not so much for a rogue If you’re going to PVE Hey guess what you’re going swords Combat You know why Unless you’re doing PVP Your damage is going to be crap.
And the list goes on Like it or not the game is solved everybody knows what’s going to work and what’s not.
Is this whole class diversity thing that you think that you think that you’re so special no I hate to tell you but Unless you just want to speck yourself to be utterly bad everything’s been done.
Because at the end of the day yeah of arms Warriors going to have mortal strike.
A fury Warriors going to have ram page A Is rett paladen is going to have crusader strike Just like a holy palatin is going to have holy shock and a protection palatin is going to have avenger shield.
But at the end of the day I’m still a palatin I have all the Is bubbles and buffs That a holy palatin does.
Now maybe he has improved wisdom maybe he doesn’t Maybe the rep paladen has Kings.
But seriously these are very minor differences minor There’s not these huge diversity abilities that make you so unique.
So no it doesn’t devalue you as a tank if someone can switch it doesn’t it never has Because like it or not Talents are not meaningful choice they’ve never been meaningful and they never were.
And you don’t want them to be either and I can prove it I can name 4 meaningful choices that have been in the game and everyone hated them just about.
1 skerier and aldor 2 Early artifact weapons 3 Azarite armor respecting 4 Covenant Swapping and Conduit energy.
There are your meaningful choices And yeah even if you don’t play retail it’s impossible to get away of how much the player race hated them.
Wow you must run into some very unique people as I can tell you most groups that ipug it works like this I walk in the dungeon I’ll say hello no response.
I take the dungeon If it’s a decent group we don’t have any problems if it’s a bad group we wipe once or twice.
We get done with the dungeon Everyone leaves the group instantly That’s what I run into 90% of the groups that I get into.
Unless I know somebody in the group prior So yeah it would be great if well the game may be social but that doesn’t mean the Players are
I love how these are back to back to back:
VS
And we have Solotov, and other anti-Dual Spec folks liking this post.
So to be clear, Ziryus makes the claim that DS will alleviate some of the Tank shortage problems to which Solotov firmly rejects. However, somehow, despite DS not having any impact on the Tanking shortage… it is going to manage to “devalue” the “real” Tanks and Healers who get the job done… because people will swap to Tanks and Healers… except they won’t… because that’d help the Tank shortage numbers… which it can’t do… because people said so… BUT IT WILL DEFINITELY HURT ROLE IDENTITY BECAUSE CASUALS WILL TAKE UP THE MANTLE… but it won’t help…
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I agree It’s not going to solve it however it can’t be denied that it’s not going to help it by some degree
Simultaneously saying Dual Spec will hurt tanks while also saying it won’t have any affect on the shortage of tanks. 
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Well, I am on a “dead” server, its why I don’t want to be on a mega server.
Being social is basically needed to get groups on my server, we have 3 or 4 major guilds left and a few minor ones, being social is what gets you groups on my realm. It’s very hard to actually be a pug on my realm.
I had to pay for a tank once just because all the tanks I knew were raiding (was working on a healer friends attunements) and I got a 20g discount from his asking price because I was social and it was a good group. Had him do two SVN runs then after that my tank friends were done raiding and we reformed with the people I knew. And that was just because we sink want to wait the hour and a half for them to finish the raid.
One of the advantages of a “dead” server is people have to be social to get stuff done.
It will increase the number of BAD tanks, hurting tank mains reputation by proxy because the bad tanks will “tank” a dungeon and not be able to finish it because they think tanking is just a spec and gear thing, while having no understanding or willingness to learn the difference between zug zug and tanking.
The people who want to and know how to tank are already doing it. All do spec will do is make dps who call themselves tanks ruin the group experience for many people.
We saw it in wrath and that’s with the dumped down heroic difficulty. Even when LFD was added how many times did you get pared with “tanks” that were just dps trying to bypass the queue wait time? For me it was around 20%. And it made me not trust “tanks” I didn’t know.
Dual spec will cause more people to appear to be tanking, when in reality they will be trying to zug zug as a dps because they don’t want to play the babysitting role that is tanking.
Maybe to “some” degree. Honestly I don’t really know if it will or won’t. There’s a lot of reasons why a good solid section of the wow playing community won’t choose to Tank or Heal if given a second spec. An indicator is the number of people even here that advocate it for PVP … there’s only two specs so which is it going to be? A PVP spec or a Tank/Heal spec?
I don’t accept that it will make a significant difference. But I have no idea if it will make a tiny difference. Maybe it will and maybe it won’t. Some people will Tank and Heal less if they had a second spec too.
I think some people may Tank or Heal for faster queues - maybe. But not many. I think some may try and balls it up too. But it’s really hard to know. I mean these are people who also need to have developed a Tanking or Healing offset.
It takes more than a spec - these are people that need the right gear and they need to have it gemmed and enchanted appropriately - people who won’t shell out 50g for a respec a couple of times a week are somehow going to get a good offset and fork out to keep it gemmed and chanted … seems a bit implausible that this is going to be a significant number of people.
Dual specs would devalue the tank and healing roles from the people that play them exclusively regardless of how many people do it or not.
What devalues them is not the people that would do it but the mechanism that makes it possible.
Edit: Role choice has that much less meaning after dual specs, if anyone is wondering why. Its easier to change roles therefore individual roles dont have the same weight as before. Its not contingent on the people who take advantage of it, assuming they do, which is still highly questionable.
This is just basic stuff to grasp. If you guys spent more time thinking critically and less time strawnmanning for your own amusement maybe you wouldnt look like idiots everytime you posted.
I cannot wait for this to fold neatly into the Shaman “tank” thread since now all of a sudden how everyone plays matters… ahahahaha
Gear and spec were the only defining factors before? Guess skill means nothing…
Not sure how Dual Spec will inevitably increase the number of bad tanks. By the same logic, a number of good tanks will also increase. Why is it one direction and not the other?
He wouldn’t necessarily say this unless he subscribed to an inherent “tragic” vision of the player-base; assuming most people are bad and so will assume specs they will function poorly within.
And I’m not sure why bad tanks hurt the reputations of every tank in the game. What are people going to do?
“Oh, I had a bad experience with a tank. So I’m going to try to do every dungeon without one now.”
Just because?
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Imagine if Blizzard had refused to even release TBC Classic on the basis that,
“We can’t because inevitably there will be bad players playing the game and we want to avoid that. So we decided against releasing the game altogether because bad players give good players a bad experience.”
I love how a reason against Dual Spec is, “There are bad players.”
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Word, I guess I need to try and tank every raid boss in TBCC in my PVP (resto) spec and see how I do…
So I need to things that I don’t enjoy to experience the game…sounds fun…
I am max level.
Never said it would…I said I would be in the game more often because I could go PVP and then if one of my friends asked me to tank to help them out I could. Instead with the current system I would tell them no because I had respecced resto to PVP and I will be in that spec until raid day. So no, you haven’t actually said how it would be bad for the game, you offered a valid argument of how it wouldn’t help a specific situation.
If I am not trying to be the best I can for my team, what am I doing?
Well then if they add dual spec, you can just not use it. Then if this hypothetical makes everyone else more powerful situation occurs, it will be more challenging for you!
Stop trying to force dual spec on my but accept my mediocre play style!
What originality? This is not the TBC you are looking for…
How is dual spec a bad change, I consider it a good change.
I couldn’t agree more, but making it more accessible and fun are out of the question!
No, I speak for me (a pure tank) who loves to heal in PVP. Having dual spec would allow me to be in the game by PVPing more. Then when one of my friends needs a tank I can easily swap and tank what they need. Then swap back and go back to PVP. I can see how this is worse for the game versus me just raid logging once a week.
Which server has a worgen on it?
All these PVE players that can’t grasp the concept of making more areas of the game more accessible.
It doesn’t fit their narrative that way…
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TBC doesn’t need to be more accessible. 50g and a trip to the trainer isn’t something that’s killing the game.
If it is for you, oh well, sorry you dont like TBC.
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There are non resto pvp viable builds no?
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