TBC and Classic are pretty much dead.
Empty servers. No traction with streamers. Casual fans all gone.
It’s just a game for speed runners and gold sellers now.
I hope Blizz is learning from all this and will start using this content in more interesting ways like Season of Mastery.
It let’s people play more and therefore “work” harder at the game. You have this fictionalized version of the game in your imagination but that’s not how people are playing it. I never respec and many others don’t so we’re not “working” to make enough gold to respec constantly. The lack of people in arenas make it clear that lot’s of people aren’t respecing to play them. They’re simply skipping that part of the game. Add dual spec and many people will farm the gold to get it and play more parts of the game they are presently skipping.
Careful. You’re asking the wrong questions.
In this discussion, “TBCC design goals” refers to “ultimately, what the experience felt like in original TBC”.
What the design goals literally were in original era TBC are slightly…not as important because Blizzard has already stated a willingness to make #somechanges.
It was a TBC design choice to not have some of the things that they’ve already changed/added.
So when I hear the phrase “TBC design goals” in the context of TBCC, I think those are goals that are intended to recreate or mimic the feeling of playing original TBC.
Drums were not a widely used phenomenon back except in the latest parts of the life of TBC, Sunwell, by the highest performing guilds.
This time around, drums was going to basically be the world buffs of this expansion, where everyone was primed to respec LW and it would be a natural part of raiding life, even in mid-core guilds. This was something that was changed in an effort to make sure the experience of the original is properly recreated.
The regen buff mechanic was completely new and discovered going in to TBCC during beta. It was a mechanic that existed for the whole of original TBC, but nobody abused it back then. It was simply not something anybody, on any sort of findable record, ever utilized. Yet, the feral rotation going in to TBCC was primed to look like spamming trollblood potions every 2-3 seconds in order to utilize the mechanic. This was hotfixed and changed, because it better realizes the original TBC experience, because nobody did this back then even though it existed.
These changes are accounting for differences in player behavior, in an effort to balance the experience towards how it was back then and not cause too many “meta shifts” that are alien to what actually existed back then.
I don’t see how this question is relevant to anything. I don’t care the ways how TBC’s design is different to Classic or Wrath’s design. It’s irrelevant. We’re playing a recreation of TBC. The only design ethics (I prefer this phrase) that matter are TBC, and TBC alone. When I’m playing WOTLKC then wraths design ethics will be front and center for me.
I simply don’t believe you.
I have absolutely zero faith that any of what you just said here would actually be the case if they add dual spec, unless you provide an reliable evidence that this is the player behavior that would erupt from its addition.
The best evidence we have, the two expansions where dual spec existed, shows that you’re grabbing at straws at best.
I simply believe people aren’t doing those things for wholly different reasons unrelated to their spec choice, and I think it’s naïve to believe that it’s the only thing keeping people from doing them.
There might be some people are singularly blocked by the 50g respec fee, but that pool of people simply doesn’t like playing any part of the game other than an active raid activity or battleground/arena. You aren’t to be catered to at any cost. You are not the type of player that an MMORPG like TBC needs to better or improve it’s community.
This isn’t just about player behavior, it’s about the quality of the game.
nope
can you elaborate on those design goals?
I think it is, if you don’t want to get into it, that’s fine, but i think it matters.
the thread is over 5k long…
This just doesn’t quite have the same feeling as the one before it.
so then to me it makes sense to be able to explain what they really are, and how each change or non change relates back to them. Comparing them to classic or wrath design ethics is more of a tool for showing the differences, or why dual spec might not fit into the tbcc design.
When you claim something doesn’t fit tbc design goals, i think it makes sense to explain what those goals entail, to better describe why something wouldn’t match up.
For example, I think at one point someone brought up that classes seem to be made purposefully with niche weaknesses, as to encourage finding other players to fill those gaps, and thus create groups. This to me seems like a design goal, encourage grouping by design.
Blizzard said it themselves.
You’re right, and Blizzard has done exactly that for each of the changes I spoke about. They provided a detailed and thorough explanation as to why they changed it and how it was in-line with TBC values, and I agreed with them.
All I can do is infer off of Blizzard. I didn’t personally design TBC.
Blizzard gave their exact reasoning for not wanting dual spec during actual TBC. I don’t need to do any speaking for them, nor is there a need for you to excessively ask us to speak in their stead.
bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/98646792-we-need-free-respecs-or-spec-swapping/
My opinion on dual spec is guided by these sentiments. It’s clear, at least to me, that not having dual spec is inherently important to maintaining the experience of original TBC. There’s plenty of content within these statements for you to digest if you are trying to understand why dual spec does not fall neatly under “TBC design ethics”, for me.
The game itself is an embodiment of their design goals and/or philosophy. Up until that point they were still at least somewhat interested in specialization being a relatively important choice.
The current devs said they wanted to keep to the originals as close as was possible in the current climate.
I really dont know what there is to discuss in terms of developer intent on the subject of dual specs and TBC. They weren’t vague about how they felt as you can see from the quotes.
If anything, that should put the whole matter to bed once and for all and should have months ago as well but hey, 5k posts. Beating a dead horse is still beating a dead horse no matter how long it goes on for.
If there’s anything coming from pro dual spec posters that I 100% agree with, it’s that Blizzard should definitely comment on it.
I found it much easier to find groups in Wrath for my dps alts. I was one of many that helped in that respect since I started to heal with my druid because it was added. Unless you provide that reliable evidence you claim I need to provide:
Then why are you still here posting? You should follow your own advice and stop posting. I guess that advice is only meant for those in favor of adding dual spec
Okay well since we’re doing anecdotes…
I mained a rogue in WOTLK and I thought queue times were always meme-level abhorrently long (45 mins - 1 hr or more).
Like I would legitimately queue up, then go eat lunch or play another game, I remember pretty vividly, while leaving my speakers on to hear the queue pop.
That was even just for the random daily heroic, which everyone did. Finding a heroic for anything else? Probably worse.
45 minutes to an hour was quite an improvement for my dps alts in both vanilla and BC. Sometimes I be in a group of 3 dps alts for more than that before the group disbanded with out ever getting into a dungeons.
Sounds like you didn’t really have fun playing the game. That would explain why you get off on stopping other people from having fun. I’d queue and go farm or quest or fish etc. There’s lots of things to do in the game if you actually like playing it.
lol.
Its not like I did that every single time.
There are other things in life than WoW, you know that right?
I think their silence is more than adequate. From their perspective it might be more beneficial to remain quiet on hot button topics you dont plan on doing anything about assuming thats the case.
Im just here to remind Blizzard that not every subscriber is in love with the idea of dual specs in TBC. There’s a risk one takes by letting people spew their nonsense everywhere unabated with no counter offerings.
I never said anyone should stop posting. Just that the dual spec crowd lost the debate from the very first post and to keep firing away like you havent isnt going to change the outcome. There comes a point where your incessant whining and trolling can work against you - like the company not responding because they dont want to alienate the overly sensitive among us (or start a forum flame war) - their money is just as green.
So now we all get to sit in limbo instead because they know the bulk of their subs lack the maturity to handle news contrary to their petty desires.
People said that on the multiboxer threads, until blizzard banned multiboxing software. Search the threads on drums and you’ll see people saying you’re wasting your time, blizzard will never do anything. Until they did. /shrug, you’re just another nobody who hasn’t got a clue pretending you know the minds of the devs and blizzard’s game plan.
The good news for the pro dual spec crowd is they will get dual spec, in wotlkc.
The implication being you do? Well then Mr Somebody, please enlighten us all on when we can expect dual specs since you got clout and a couple of half arsed examples.
I wasnt one of those people saying nothing will happen multiboxing or drums so youre point is wasted. As a matter of fact Ive even stated that winning the argument against dual specs doesnt mean we wont end up with them anyway. Blizzard being a shortsighted MMO developer that killed the goose that lays the golden eggs is a matter of historical record in the gameO’sphere.
Do you think every player single player suggestion over the years have gotten into the game at some point? For every flip by Blizzard there are a thousand that never came to pass.
Multiboxing lol. Yeah only took them like 13 years. You sure showed me.
No of course I don’t. I have never claimed to know the minds of the devs nor what blizzard might do. It’s you anti dual speccers that claim to know that yet you still keep posting against it. It’s very curious since you claim to already know what will, or won’t, happen.
But you think you know which ones will come to pass and which ones won’t. The ancient greeks called that sort of nonsense hubris.
No doubt you have. You change your arguments more often than you change your underwear. It’s a singular achievement of the anti dual spec crowd to say what every seems to work in the moment without considering what you might have said in the past.