But do you think that overall dual-spec would lead to more tanks or less tanks?
Did you not actually understand the numbers I put out? In 9,000 players of even distribution of roles, we got from 1,000 tanks to 1,400 tanks with a 30% increase.
Such influx.
The way I read his comments was that 20-30% is not significant enough to warrant a change. I think I agree with him there.
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IDK, not significantly more, maybe 20% more. It’s certainly not a silver bullet to role shortages. I’m also not convinced that role shortages are any worse now than they were in vanilla classic.
I don’t have a lot of skin in this though. I don’t think reducing respecs to 20g will make much difference to the game. It just waters is down a little.
Tank classes represent 1/3rd of all classes. Which means for every 1,000 players, 333 are tank classes. If everyone split into 5-mans, you would need 200 tanks, which means 60% of all tank classes would need to be tanks.
But raids only require 3 tanks, so only 120 of those 333 need to tank raids. Of the remaining 213, 80 of them(37.5%) would need to have a their dual-spec set to tank to meet the 200 tanks needed for dungeons.
How much would warrant a change? 50%?
Why do you think that any one thing having some kind of effect on your ability to find a tank for a dungeon should take priority over literally everything else including retaining as much of the authenticity of the TBC expansion that’s left?
What is so important about your dungeon runs that Blizzard has to change the game for you?
Nobody is quitting because of lack of dual spec, so please, tell us, why is it so important that this be a priority to be added.
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Tank spec represent 3/27 specializations. I took care to note specializations in my numbers, hence the 666 priest healers.
Specializations are never equally represented, especially not in PvE content.
I gave you perfect world.
Better than you suggesting that 33% of the player base is tank.
My main issue with this is your contention that raids only need 3 Tanks. Are you including OTs? You don’t need to be an MT spec to run heroics (though it is easier if you do).
In a 10 man (such as Kara) you typically run with two tanks. It’s basically 1 in 5 (same ratio you need for 5 mans).
In 25 mans it is not uncommon to run more than 3 tanks - including OTs. Druids are more than capable of Tanking as OT MT and in Heroics.
I think your assumptions are probably a tad too much on the conservative side in terms of how many people spec to do some form of tanking. Thus why I think the 20% shortage figure is closer the mark than say 30%.
I said 33% of are tanking classes, 20% are needed to tank 5-mans, but only 12% are needed to tank in raids.
If everyone who raids never changed specs, there would be 1.667-to-1 shortage of tanks.
This is the figure I am disputing. I think it’s probably somewhere closer to 18% in game - in terms of players speccing to do some form of Tanking in raids.
At this stage the top guilds are probably running less Tanks per 25 players and not running Kara so much but there’s a hell of a lot of not top guilds that are running more tanks and doing a lot of 10 man raiding.
There may be a stronger case in the next tier when all the new raids are 25 mans.
There was this RPG I really, really enjoyed. Divinity: Original Sin II. It was really neat, the combat was solid and the story was good. They let you change your character at a mirror on a boat. Couldn’t be the same people.
You cannot tank anything as a druid unless you’re feral spec’ed. You cannot tank anything as a paladin unless you are prot spec’ed. You can somewhat get away with tanking on a warrior dps spec’ed, but it is already pretty hard to tank as a warrior in heroics as prot.
Raids generally bring three tanks. But sure, the feral is often your third tank because a bear spec isn’t much different than a kitty spec.
The total number of actual tanks in a raid would be the number of prot warriors, prot paladins, and feral druids. And for the 18% you claim, that would be 4.5 out of 25.
Hard to imagine that many tanks in a raid. So where are you getting your 18% number?
Yes indeed. OT druids spec feral. As do Main Tank Druids. My point is that I think you’re underestimating how many Heroic Dungeon Tanks are actually in circulation. I think you’re only factoring Main Tanks and not OTs. You’re also not accounting for 10 man raids which normally run 2 tanks. Especially those run by more casual guilds.
My point was, you need 20% of all players to be a tank for dungeons, but only 12% for 25-man raids. That alone will create a tank shortage.
If a raid required 33% to be tanks, there wouldn’t be a tank shortage for dungeons.
Yes I understand your point well. My point is that your numbers (in my opinion) underestimate how many Tanks run in a large number of raids.
Do you believe that the average 25-man has 4.5 tanks? That is 18%.
Firstly, there are many casual guilds running Kara - so you can just factor in 25 man raids at this point.
Secondly, a lot of casual guilds that are doing Mags/Gruuls are running 4 Tanks (not all of them Main Tanks). My guild has 2 MTs and 2 Feral Druids for instance - not unusual. So that’s 16% for our guild - just for the core 25 man team. We have more people running tanks than that as we have additional groups running Kara.
My 18% figure is just a guestimate and maybe I’m overcooking it the other way but I think your 12% is way lower than the real figure will turn out to be.