How are you coming up with 10/20 minutes?|
Edit: I made the scenario in favor of those who want dual spec. No shot is every tank that can tank, MS or OS, be on and willing to tank. I know if I had a class that could tank, I would OS tank specifically to sell runs. I didn’t include any of that in my scenario for your benefit.
Agreed this all worked in Classic vanilla (and that game had less tank capable classes). I don’t think it’s broken. People waited longer for groups than that before TBC classic and there was no issue with it.
That’s around the wait time the average group gives up.
Your group is throwing in the towel at 20 minutes? They weren’t good players to begin with.
I’m interested in how you derive that?
LOL no they didn’t, there were far fewer end game dungeons(which were also far less relevant), given the advent of heroics, and groups broke up all the time if they could find a tank/healer for UBRS/Strat/Scholo within 20 minutes.
Idk what groups you’re in, but I never experienced it being that low of a timer. I’ve seen groups call it at an hour, but not before, most of the time, the 40 minute mark.
But they did call it.
Yeah, most of the time at an hour.
No one is saying groups don’t break up because of the tank shortage.
Dual spec still won’t solve the issue though, and you’re now saying groups are ending at 10 minutes? Even LFD won’t save you at that point.
I know for a fact there would be at least 1 more tank, me.
In any case, you act as if this is some great mystery. If you make respec’ing easier/cheaper, more people will respec. If you make respec’ing harder/more expensive, less people will respec.
I shouldn’t have to argue about something that is obvious.
Being able to change spec at a whim would take me out of tank circulation for the most part - unless it’s for guildies.
I don’t think it’s uniform how people will use dual spec - except that it will make people less reliant on others to fill roles they can just flip spec for.
A 30% solution is better than no solution. Stop using this all-or-nothing fallacy.
Why? 10char
I tank raids, and for guildies often enough, when I pug I want low stress - I’ll cop a wait time if the respec is easy or free. The only reason I pug tank is to pass time and because I don’t want to pay for a respec.
Not saying everyone would do this - there’s as many anecdotes for how people will use their dual spec as there are people.
The only way wait times will be shorter is if the number of tanks increase. So the only way you will be removed from tank circulation is if more than one tank takes your place.
I mean, ok. But what does that have to do with what I said?
I know that if I piss on a forest fire I technically helped.
Yes, but does that mean more tanks? Probably not. It’s the literal most boring role, and the least needed role, only relevant in small numbers for raiding, and in bigger numbers for Heroics which is content that will be outpaced and underplayed until P2 with the birb that drops a mount and P5 when Kael’Thas comes back.
Your other Druid friend has already stated that cata was best when we had dual spec, LFD, and satchels. We won’t have LFD which is really the crux as to why tanks became more relevant, and satchels as an incentive to actually do the instances consistently.
With dual spec only, you lack ease and incentive. It won’t fix the issue, now matter how many small pockets of people piss on the forest fire.
Except we’re not talking about respecc’ing, and it’s not as easy as you’re making it.
You’re ignoring the fact that only 3/9 classes can tank, most of those won’t go tank, ignoring the pvp OS or the farming OS, ignoring the fact that heroics aren’t needed as much day by day, and more.
You’re just coping, and honestly, I don’t believe you want dual spec to help the tank issue. You just want dual spec.
Except it’s not an all or nothing. You’re saying that as cope. It still leaves thousands of dps, IN A PERFECT WORLD, without tanks or even healers are that point. You’re still ignoring (read the comment above this one) and it’s really just cope.
We put in dual spec, we see a rise in tanks for 2-3 weeks, and then what. We’re back at square one with no tanks because they’re raid logging, in pvp spec, or in an instance with their friends, or getting paid to run people, or just doing their daily until they don’t need badges anymore, which just leaves dual spec as dual spec, not even a help to the tank problem at that point.
Let’s pretend respecs were absolutely free. Would that increase the number of tanks? Why?
You’re reaching my man.
But you’re missing my point - I am in circulation as a Tank primarily because respecing has a cost. Otherwise I’d pug as dps and just wait for groups (can farm easier so there’s plenty more I can do as dps spec while I wait). The wait time doesn’t bother me. I don’t do pugs because I need them I do them as something to do.
I accept that some will Tank more often, but I reckon I’d pug tank less often with dual spec - just one person though.
In one breath you admit that dual-spec would increase the number of tanks by 20-30%, then in the next breath you claim it wouldn’t do anything. Which is it?