Totally untrue. We do this level of speedrun. I MT Broodlord, sometimes Firemaw and Chrom, and often steal and MT Nef after initial agro. I do so because my threat + survivability is superior to a warriors. I can have better of both in resistance gear as well. In some cases it makes our kills FASTER when I MT or take agro and then tank.
Only on Vael. On all other fights there are a few seconds to get agro.
You lose those seconds at the end of the run. Nobody got “a few seconds” to spare with times being as close as they are.
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A) I dont understand what you mean. What seconds are we losing and where?
B) I am not in a world record speedrun guild. We need to improve our trash times. I am in a sub 30 min guild however, and our Boss kill times are top tier.
I fully belief you. Like I said, there are 5.4% bear tanks. That’s not 0%. Some guilds have great success with them but those are very few and all the data points towards bears not bringing as much in the current meta as warriors do.
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And what I meant is that times are so close that people lose their cool if you say “1,2,3” before charging a double-tech pack. Waiting for aggro is not an option.
The data does not support this assertion, general beliefs do.
A) People believe Bears are inferior, therefore do not use them. Truth is irrelevant in belief.
B) People in general do not know how to play or gear a Bear. There is insufficient information, and what information that does exist is often somewhere between flat out wrong and incomplete. Most of this is tied directly to point A.
C) The numbers AKA actual analysis shows Bears are superior in many ways to a Warrior. Those ways are situations that come up in Speed clears.
The best utility for a Bear is, in my opinion and experience to use them to steal agro from a Warrior and then MT, or to chase threat in case the warrior dies, or to just MT on bosses where the boss pull allows sufficient time for a Bear to get threat.
I’d be really interested in the logs. Im not doubting you but I imagine your trash dps is lower than warriors as well as boss dps (what matters more than sustained TPS).
Broodlord in which there is downtime when moving the boss to be able to gain threat. Firemaw in which a tank having killer TPS is kind of irelevant. Chromaggus whom dps have to run past allowing you to gain a few extra mauls incase of misses.
And Razorgore.
Threat is irrelevant in this case, if you are a speedrunning guild your MT should never have sustained threat problems. Snap threat is the issue, if you miss your first Maul and it isnt followed by a Crit you can bet when that taunt wears off some warriors will be dying.
Bad form, you’re killing the backstabs and causing some parrys by pulling as well as potentially gimping the raid if cat call happens and the healers aren’t looking at the OT who intentionally pulled threat, you die and the relatively raged starved MT isn’t second on threat.
On firemaw everyone stays in. Threat is an issue. I lose less threat in 315 fire resist gear than a warrior does. At some point in the fight threat does become irrelevant, but I have the 5 seconds I need to establish threat, and I have enough TPS after that that the warriors can go ham and not steal agro from me. The same can not be said of the warrior tank if also wearing 315 FR gear. At least not for the first 20s or so.
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Well, you do have 94.6% of the most furious theory-crafting nerds disagree with you on this based on them rolling and tanking as warrior.
I’d say that’s pretty strong evidence but then again, upsets happen. If your guild feels like bear is the way, all power to you.
You underestimate the power of belief. None of those people have looked into Bears because there is no reason to do so when you already “know” the truth.
Ill definitely concede the firemaw point, warrior TPS does certainly drop with FR compared to bears. But so does your own warrior’s DPS unless they all have no FR
(usually from what I see its around 50-150 buffed)
Most people who don’t believe bears are competitive with general TPS in 99% of scenarios as well as mit compared to a warrior are just ignorant and think their Deep Prot warrior that makes them wait 5 seconds before hitting Vael is a demigod.
Dont worry about them.
I’m not sure on the tanking part but most DPS don’t use FR past the Ony-cloak and the FR Shoulder-enchant. The other stuff is usually from world buffs like UBRS and just a ton of health. The goal is to kill Firemaw in less than 35 seconds.
Thats exactly the point. DPS wars have 150 (or whatever) unbuffed FR. MT war has 255 unbuffed FR. MT war loses a lot more threat gear to get there than either a druid does (because of MCP) or DPS war does to reach their FR level.
Granted, we also get UBRS FR buff, but that helps everyone equally.
Do people wear FR on firemaw for speed runs? Seems silly to equip more than your cape/ony neck.
I meant 150-200 BUFFED, dps warriors with 150-200 unbuffed FR would be in all honesty no real concern.
Nah, people did use stuff like Crown of Destruction etc. but barely do so any longer. Some people do use FR on a double or triple tech pack pull though vs the Fire-rain from the warlocks.
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Yeah from what ive seen its 100 FR buffed to maybe 150. Stuff like Pally Aura/Totem and Ember Juju make up most of it and help resist enough to not kill them in their 30 second Firemaws.
What is happening though is a meta shift to more survivability in general due to world-buffs being a large majority of your damage. You will see a lot of ZG-enchants, etc. since the DPS loss is not worth risking your buffs and the time it takes to Rez. Also the 6 piece from R12/13 on humans and 5 piece + edgies on off-races. Tetsu is a good example, I think he always goes with the 6 piece and hits like a truck.
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