I’ve come across another post asking if Blizz is planning to nerf T11 with the launch of T12.
Rofl
I am actually at a loss for words and have no reply for this.
healing tanks in 10 man is not a hard thing, BDK in a 10 man is even more powerful than he is in a 25 man, he heals a higher % of the boss damage and his mastery shield lasts longer vs them
10 man has lower hps/dps requirements to compensate for their potentially janky comp, this is how its designed. We did some 10 man rag pulls and got him within 5 pulls and we just took whoever was online at the time. It was a total mess because our 25 man times don’t work on 10 man (we were 1.5 seed phases ahead phasing him to 40% because the dps requirements are so much lower)
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I get people wanting more loot or faster staff in 10m but always the discussion becomes about 25m vs 10m which I feel doesn’t serve anyone. If you disagree with 25m being more rewarding then you’re simply putting around half the population against you.
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They dont understand that 10m is in its nerfed version even in t11.
All the research I did basically said on launch 10m was a lot harder but then gradually blizzard realized the tight restrictions they made and pulled them all back.
This is why from launch to what we have currently there was numerous 10m only nerfs to boss.
They keep preaching that 25m has more raid CDs to mitigate damage but don’t realize you don’t really need them on 10m because the mechanics are already hitting for far less while the players in 10m have the same health as they do in 25m.
either you cannot read or youre not actually looking at logs heres your logs for example.
25 - Nefarian’s Lightning Machine Electrocute Drinknblink 48411 (A: 29056) (R: 25822) (U: 129111, M: 51644, 40.00%)
10 - Nefarian’s Lightning Machine Electrocute Drinknblink 68718 (R: 39268) (U: 130893, M: 62175, 47.50%)
both of these are with barrier up. this is both from your wipes on 25 nef and from your 10 man kill, since you dont have a big enough catalog to pull from ill use my own for the next couple.
25 - P3 Sinestra Flame Breath Chonkars 55257 (A: 31690) (R: 9661) (U: 96607, M: 9660, 10.00%)
10 - P3 Sinestra Flame Breath Chonkars 85975 (A: 2949) (R: 9880) (U: 98804, M: 9880, 10.00%)
25 - Halfus Wyrmbreaker Furious Roar Chonkars 19633 (U: 19633)
10 - Halfus Wyrmbreaker Furious Roar Chonkars 19398 (U: 20419, M: 1021, 5.00%)
i can go on but im tired, either way with your thought of 10 man doesnt need cds KEKw. yeah we do. if stuff does the same damage sounds like we need cds huh?
A = Absorb
R = Resist
U = Unmitigated
M = Mitigated
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Equally difficult content should have the same rewards.
And what happened back in the day when it did was that most people ended up preferring 10 mans so blizzard decided to bribe people in classic to do 25 mans arbitrarily.
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you are mistaken, this is how loot worked in the original cata also, they didn’t buff loot in classic, they buffed it in mid cata originally, then they buffed it again in mop, considering we are on the dragonsoul patch, that’s the loot system we have
it started at 2:5 and 3:8 in t11 heroic
then sometime in firelands it became
2:6 and 3:9 in heroic
when mop came out, they also decided to buff normal mode from 2:5 and 3:8 to 2:6 and 3:9
I feel like we’ve had this conversation before though
When you have less than half the size it is bound to have some inequalities. 10m being much more efficient to run as you need less people if being as rewarding would mean that it is best to run 10m, the same as if you put the same rewards in 5m dungeons.
You can call it a bribe but that’s what all rewards are and it only makes sense if you want both 25m and 10m to be run for them at the same level to each have their advantages. It’s not like 10m is hurting in term of participation.
Anyway this subject is not really gonna go anywhere if that’s the point we’re gonna be stuck on.
Love this, its exactly correct. the Damage Taken per Second (DTPS) is about the same between 10man and 25man heroics. The reason why 10man is perceived as being easier is because successful 10man raids having a higher concentration of above average players. Bosses will die faster because of it, not because the encounters themselves are easier on 10man. I want to caveat that just a little bit, there are going to be some bosses where mechanics may be balanced differently on 10m vs 25m, and raid balancing isn’t always exact science, the developers do some feelscraft when making some decisions. But I think on average, the difficulty of raid encounters are about the same for both raid sizes.
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It isn’t “stuff” it’s crackle, it’s literally your only go to.
You can go see patch notes of all the 10m only nerfs to almost every fight.
Notice how you only bring up crackle as your end all be all?
The adds on 10m were a joke and thats what was wiping us on 25m.
Would be easier to go thru patch by patch and link all 10m only nerfs.
Also to clarify I also play Peeposcam, I went ele cuz our demo had a baby.
that’s not true, lets take an average 25 man group
2-5-18
vs a normal 10 man group
2-2-6
so the 25 man group has 3 times as many dps, right? so we’d expect a 25 man boss to have 3x as much hp
but it isn’t like that, because that isn’t how blizzard chose to balance it, if it was exactly equal, 10 man would be toast, so there is a giant leeway, so 25 man bosses have 3.5x hp
chimaeron has 126m in 25 man but only 36m in 10 man
this is why kill times are averagely faster in 10 man and it feels less “tuned”, because it is.
If you look at the #1 al akir in the world in 10 man, its 2:39, but in 25 man, its 3:57, pretty much the same thing happens up and down the list, there are a few exceptions with 25 man speedruns absolutely detonating ODS with 7 mage stacks but even then the 10 man is still faster
10 man has a built in gap closer to the 25 man because they assume you won’t have the proper comp & you won’t be able to stack as many of the overpowered classes, if you have a raid comp in 10 man with all of the buffs baked in, you have a less hard time reaching the numbers required to complete fights than 25 mans do
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Which is why I said there really was no DPS checks in t11 for 10m, if anything you have to hold DPS on certain fights so you don’t phase the boss to quick like on Nef, because then you could line up mechanics you don’t want to line up.
well another thing to note is, these 10 man kills are using maybe one or two of the most overpowered classes (that being fire mage and unholy dk), the 25 man kills are going all out, they have basically half of the raid as fire mages or unholy dks, when people say its hard to run a 10 man roster, try running a 25 man roster where 15 people are 2 classes
Yea those 25m class stacking are definitely the outliers for speed.
Not how normal raids do it.
Which is funny because they are still killing the 25m versions that much slower than the 10m.
10 mans as a raid size outside mega dungeons like ZA was a mistake that blizzard never recovered from. Coordinating with many people of different motives, skills levels, and outlooks was what made a raid, a raid. It was never the content or difficulty.
10s aren’t rewarded with as much raid loot because at their heart they are not real raids.
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10 man is in a weird state, 2 items feels too little but 3 items feels too much, the previous suggestion of 2.5 items where u have a 50% shot to get a 3rd drop would be the most fair imo. As for dragonwrath, the rate they are getting it is probably fair by maths
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the only guilds that would split the team’s are the top elite teams that want to sweat the hell out of the game just to say they are the best. For those that are just playing the game to have fun it is stupid to have a really long time between the 2 raid size’s. My raid team has 4 caster’s in it meaning by the time DS comes out we will have only 1-2 ppl with a staff at best.
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How much easier is 10m firelands vs 25m?
I don’t PTR
bro item count isnt even the problem. it’s how items are distributed. so many dupes or no shows of vital items are deal breakers. my mage when he joined my raid team didnt get 4p shoulders for well over a month of us trying to funnel him them.
2 items is ok if they’re relevant, or as easily manipulated as 6. that’s something i argued a few days ago.
everything dies a lot faster in 10 man and does a bit less damage but its a bit more sensitive to big mistakes, its really hard to say exactly because i don’t play with the exact same players every raid, by maths its easier
al akir drops a tier item of your choice every week does he not? Should be impossible to be missing a key tier piece in t11