Few concerns with Subtlety. The addition of Shadow Dance to the base Rogue tree takes away from the class theme of Subtlety, since previously this was Sub’s iconic button. I do think that from a gameplay point of view, Shadow Dance opens up some cool stuff in Outlaw especially. Instead of removing it I think that the only benefit that Outlaw and Assassination should be able to reap from specing into Shadow Dance is just the ability to access stealth generators for 9 seconds, no damage amps from Nightstalker, no critical chance amps, no Restless Blades CDR. I could see a world in where either of the two specs actually just makes much better use of Shadow Dance than the original possessor of said ability which would just feel weird. Another concern is the restriction in the Subtlety tree, particularly the right side. Having things like Deeper Daggers and Shadowed Finishers buried under a bunch of AoE nodes, especially when Shadowed Finishers is part of the baseline Eviscerate right now, will just feel not good especially since Deeper Daggers is coveted for its synergy with things like Gloomblade and Lingering Shadows.
Aye, the fact that they just didn’t out right scrap Melee survival and go back to range survival is my biggest gripe with the Talent tree system. I figured this would be the opportunity for them to actually do that, disappointed to say the least. I just wish they would add a fourth spec now to hunter if they want to keep melee hunter as an option.
I was excited at the prospect of the talent trees, especially after reading the philosophy blog post. After seeing these I am wavering in my interest.
The tree is a required interface redesign for “choices” that are really just existing abilities you already use. The only choices you really have is what you prefer to prune from your current kit, and some minor new decisions mixed in. Which I guess is exciting?
I was personally hoping for an expansion of specializations beyond the stagnant and simplified versions we have now. Choices that would allow for more flexible builds letting the player determine their playstyle. The robust visual of these trees is nothing more than an illusion, most choices are obvious and the paths are restrictive and filled with boring or unavoidable talents. These feel rushed and are kind of a mess, even for a rough draft.
100% agree with this
Echoing reprimand is a great damage ability because it gives so much burst, but it’s way too awkward to play with. I stand there sometimes waiting for shadow techniques to proc or accidentally get too many because of shadow blades. There is no synergy between rouge abilities and ER. I would really like to see them remove ER and buff flagellation like making it give mastery instead of haste. Or really anything but ER.
After brainstorming a bit with some other Rogue players an idea was sprouted. You could potentially switch Secret Technique and Black Powder’s positions in the tree. Then rework Secret Technique to function similarly to Arcane Mage’s Touch of the Magi. This would solve several issues. It would remove the redundancy between Secret Technique and Black Powder. Currently these two buttons do very similar things just one is on a cooldown, this means that its just down to tuning. Another issue this solves is the “bad feelingness” of going down the right side with single target in mind, since the newly reworked Secret Technique would most definitely have a place in the single target rotation when talented (which current Secret Technique doesn’t). Another added benefit of this change is that a Secret Technique reworked to function similarly to Arcane Mages Touch of the Magi would cause Subtlety to have AoE damage while still retaining its Funnel identity. Then the choice of whether the player wants to spec into Black Powder and spam out more AoE is down to the player.
So far all these talent trees have shown is that you are taking away from us what we already have baseline as a class and then making us use talents to get it back?
Yeah that’s a big yikes from me.
That is not the way this should be done.
Talk about a lazy cop out. Be creative for once. It really isn’t that hard. I could easily come up with thousands of new talents for every class and spec which are interesting, fun, and strong. (I’m not going to, because that’s not my job, and I’ve done it several times in the past).
You seriously need to hire some new creative talent because this has got to be a joke.
/Raises hand
Aye, that’d be me.
The Defias will have their revenge!
No chance in hell it will be.
Look at Shadowlands, they delayed it and it STILL WASNT READY. Also they ignored ALL Feedback and buried their heads in the sand and told us it would all be okay.
Ahh, sweet vindication.
And people told us DKs we were over reacting when we pointed that out.
When they said talent trees I was a bit excited. I wanted to see the bonus stuff we’d get on to of the stuff we had. Now I’m just picking stuff that I’ve been using for years and that does not feel good at all.
It’s the exact same formula that they always follow.
- Remove thing from players.
- Promise new thing.
- Make players pick up Old Thing through New Thing.
- Depression.
They need to do something different and creative for once.
Yes, I did, and I was able to get literally every single CC + double stratagem. The simple fact you can have 7 combo points kidney shot is broken, you could go on an arena with no other talents than double stratagem that you would come out on top because 8 seconds of hard stun is simply too much.
No one should be subject to an 8 seconds of hard CC. It’s the same reason why they reduced the duration of fear, why they put cheap shot and kidney shot on the same DR, because it was too much and made the game unfun for anyone on the receiving end of such abilities.
I’m sure it will be iterated out of existence. Imagine a full party of Outlaws with infinite Adrenaline Rush and Spambush for days giving them 100% uptime on all five RtB buffs.
I’m pretty confused about how Hunters’ talents are going to work. I mean, is Survival going to be able to get Explosive Shot, Barrage, and Chimera Shot?
Personally, I feel like Survival needs more active abilities in general, but they’ll sure feel less like a melee class if they get those.
Another thing that confuses me about Hunters is how the same ability can have very different uses for different specs: Kill Command consumes focus for BM hunters, but it generates focus for Survival. Chimera Shot is basically a two-target, no-cooldown replacement for Arcane Shot for MM, but for BM, it’s a cooldown that generates focus (and one of the few abilities that does generate focus).
How will these get reconciled? Is there going to be a significant revamp for Hunters, retooling the roles that various abilities play in their kits?
I like the sv hunter end traits. I don’t like some of the baseline abilities we have like our aoe spell being a talent…
For rogues I wish we had another option then the thistle tea for the outlaw based side of the rogue tree. Maybe a passive version to get more energy would be cool, as not a fan of thistle tea representing the outlaw side.
Also the keybinding for stealth abilities will be annoying. That’s a reason why I avoid sub, because of so many spells to keybind and some only working with stealth, I am not a fan of that being on other trees, unless yall can make them more like macros that switch when the stealth effect is up.
That or I may need to invest in learning how to macro a sinister strike/ambush macro on one button with the condition of stealth being up or not.
6 Second HoJ already feels like an eternity. That is just absurd.
Thats literally not what Mispeled said.
Dying in a HoJ or any stun at full HP or with Defensives up is a symptom of Damage being too high, getting CCed repeatedly and effectively locked out of the game in addition to high damage is the problem with Rogues, at least in pvp
HoJ is on GCD, so uh, nice exaggeration 
HoJ is among the least-threatening stuns in the game because it’s both single-target and dispellable on the standard magic table
Easy ,those rogues can take it off their bars. I enjoy SnD , we are supposed to be quick.
It gives 15% energy regen , more poison procs , more chances at trinket procs etc. it’s nice and should have never left in the first place.
There is already to much CC in PvP as it is. Looking at this Rogue tree the way it stands at the moment, THATS A HARD PASS ON THE XPAC.