Dragonflight Paladin Thread

Classes Paladin
82

I don’t mind the baseline abilities coming from talents, as that could be a more interesting way of leveling up your character than just having spells appear in your spellbook.

I just think that your Class Tree (the Paladin Tree) should be 90-100% fully accessible as that is what makes you your class.

All paladins are “this”— “baseline.”

However, these talents come with optional perks to let you choose how you want to accomplish a goal.

For example, Consecration.

You spec into a talent for Consecration, the spell.

A talent to the left, branches out to “Increases damage by 10%”
A talent to the right, branches out to “Increases healing by 10%”

And in the middle, is a choice talent:

Light’s Hammer or Conviction (Passive)

Light’s Hammer - Replaces Consecration

  • Hurl a Light-infused hammer to the ground, dealing (20.5% of Spell power) Holy damage to nearby enemies and healing up to 6 nearby allies for (25% of Spell power), every 2 sec for 14 sec.

or

Conviction (Passive)

  • The Light follows the Paladin into the darkest of all areas, Consecration now radiates from the Paladin.

To me, that’s the more interesting style of play. You have choices that don’t completely alter your game or make or break your character.

Consecration is still Consecration, it just gives you the ability to “throw it” at a targeted location for situational use, or just passively have it attached to your character.

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83

If we ever have a leap or something. I hope they use the new unused consecration spell fx from 8.1 and it’s like an improved Consecration that inflict everyone at the point of impact (of the leap) with a dot that burns for 2k every second and slow movement by 50% for 8sec. Every new enemy entering the zone get afflicted by the dot.

And then you can add interactivity, like for duration of the consecrated ground, holy power spender increase the damage of the dot by x% stacking.

Just something extra.

I’m still waiting for a Radiant Chains type spell

You sentence your target with the Law. Every enemy within 15yards of your target are linked to your target with burning Radiant Chains for 10seconds. They are pulled back to your target and are afflicted by burning radiant (1k) damage every second slowing their movement speed by 50%. If they move 10yards away from your target, the chain will be broken, exploding for 5k radiant damage on the afflicted enemy and the main target will suffer from Harsh Words. Increasing the dot damage done to the main target by 10%, stacking up to x% for the remaining of the duration.

4 Likes
84

Shoot, I didn’t notice that there was nothing new until you said this.

Actually, I’m putting together my ideal paladin class talent tree and ideal paladin holy talent tree right now. At some of the deepest parts of Holy’s tree, I added a few new abilities:

Divine Light: timed-cast heal on a cooldown that is powerful and efficient; produces 2 holy power if you cast it on a beaconed target and 1 if you cast it on a non-beaconed target. (Note that Divine Light is in a part of the talent tree that is built around a hard-casting playstyle, and the other talents are from the areas of the tree that are built for a melee playstyle)

Radiant Orb: based on Uther’s Holy Radiance spell from Heroes of the Storm, instant cast, 20 second cooldown, launches an orb of light at your target that heals allies it travels through and damages enemies it travels through.

Holy Strike: (tentative design) replaces Crusader Strike, has no cooldown, deals holy damage, and heals a nearby injured target for an amount equal to the damage dealt.

Honestly, to make it exciting and make us feel like we’re moving forward, Blizzard really does need to add a few new abilities.

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85

Yeah, I think this is going to be a huge problem. I think it’s just really over looked right now because the playerbase has no access to Alpha/Beta, so its hard to conceptualize it on paper.

Imgur

When you look at the layout of the Tree, which obviously is still in very rough state, but when you look at it, your “Pre-patch” experience is going to feel very hallow.

Using DK for example here, DKs will not have IBF, Abomb Limb, Unholy Assault, or Unholy Blight.

  • NOTE: I just threw these talents in, a more strategic or optimal selection could be conceived.

But it’s to show that upon logging in 10.0, you are going to feel like half your class was.

Upon leveling, you’re going to be getting back to ~75% of where you were in Shadowlands, and that’s not a good thing to look forward too, imo.

I understand the “its going to get worst, before it gets better” mentality, but I mean… can WoW afford that? =/

I don’t know. Personally, I don’t want to play 2 more years of Shadowlands.

The talent trees need to “re-invent” how I use my baseline abilities.

Consecration is turned into Light’s Hammer, or follows the paladin in a new presence type ability. (Sticks to your feet.)

BoFreedom has two optional talents you get to choose 1 of.

  • Blessing Hands - Your Blessings have 2 charges.
    • or
  • Uther’s Devotion - Spending Holy Power reduces the cooldown on your hand spells by 2 sec.

Divine Protection is a baseline Paladin ability, with two optional (again, choose one) talents.

  • Eye for an Eye - Increases Divine Protections damage reduction by 15% and reflects melee attacks.
    • or
  • Argent Defender - Increases Divine Protections damage reduction by 15% and an attack that would kill you, instead sets you back to 20% HP.

Again, give me what I have, but allow me to choose between optional fun and interesting perks.

5 Likes
86

Well, now I feel like a moron: I spent weeks putting together what I considered to be incomplete but “ideal” paladin talent trees (just the class tree and holy’s tree), but…I really don’t have much in my talent trees that’s like what you’ve described. I unpruned many passives and a few active abilities that I thought were really good, and I added about three new spells at the deepest parts of Holy’s spec tree. But I didn’t call for a lot of free abilities, and then add ways of upgrading those free abilities in the trees.

In retrospect, that’s really ironic, since I had an idea several months earlier about a customization system that let players upgrade abilities that were already in their kits, replacing them with other abilities—like Fist of the Heavens replacing Judgment, for one example.

I’m probably going to be creating a separate thread for discussing my ideal trees later this evening.

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87

It’s not my game, so it’s hard for me to say one thing is better than the other, lol.

But too me, these type of choices is what gives WoW this “soft reset” for every spec and sets a new baseline for going into the future.

When I look at the preview of the Talent Trees, I go;

  • “Okay, cool… this is what Shadowlands should have been.”

…Now, what do you have in store for Dragonflight? Is my new expansion experience just going to be you (Blizzard) correcting a wrong?

That’s… idk… not ideal I suppose, but I guess I get it. =/

I’ll just edit this…

I threw this together real quick to show a Talent system that I would think would be more successful. It’s very rough, very conceptual, and any abilities could change/be rearranged, but it’s goal is to set up that “base foundation” for moving forward.

To feel like you are getting a few new things added to your class, but leave it vague enough to open up for more talents.

Paladin Class Tree

Imgur

So baseline, every Paladin gets Auras, CS, Judgement, and TV. (And anything else I missed, lol)

Everything you see in this tree, you get. Flash of Light, Blessing of Sacrifice, Avenging Wrath, etc…

  • Squares represent Paladin Abilities you gain.
  • Circles are just passive buffs, like Judgement Cooldown reduction or CS increase damage. “Fluff Talent points” (More can be added)
  • Blue Lines/ Hexagons represent the Optional choice row.
    • These are not game breaking decisions, but just added flavor.
      • Consecration does 10% more healing or 10% more damage.
      • Range of Auras increased by 20 yards or Aura Mastery last 2 sec longer.
      • Whatever
  • The Red Lines are then your optional ability changing talents.
    • Consecration turns into Light’s Hammer or moves with the Paladin.
    • Blessed Hands or Uther’s Devotion
    • Etc.

But what this does is, it creates this baseline Paladin toolkit that I can safety assume everyone has those talents.

I can then assume everyone has Exorcism and in the Ret talent tree, I can make an optional talent choice to turn Exorcism into Holy Wrath, Blades of Justice, or Blessed Hammer.

Let’s crawl before we run. :slight_smile:

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88

lmao if bubble, bop, hoj, freedom, wings are not baseline ability idk man.

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89

Well, I mean, how you get your abilities is pretty irrelevant at this point.

Currently, they just “appear” in your spell book and magically float down to your hotbar, that isn’t any more or less exciting then having to spec into them.

By level 30, you’ll have a majority of your abilities either way.

But for me, these talents aren’t “interesting choices” or even interesting builds.

How is choosing between Death Pact and Soul Reaper an “interesting choice?”
How is choosing between Unbreakable Spirit and Divine Purpose an “interesting choice?”

They are not comparable abilities and you don’t have to make that choice today, you can already get both, so this being an expansion feature is going to flop so hard.

I just don’t get it, in a game such as Warcraft.

I can spec my DK to not have Abomb limb, to not have Soul Reaper or even Empowered Rune Weapon so that I can have 2 seconds off my kick. Why make that even a ridiculous option?

What purpose does it serve?

“If you don’t want to be viable, that’s your choice…”

Google a spread sheet or be wrong-- very interesting choice you got there…

Hey everyone, here’s my Unholy Spec… plz inv.

Imgur

90

It matters when

And we’ll have 31 points of talent in the Class tree and there’s 53 points of talent in the Class tree revealed of Druid.
So yes, having to choose to pick Wings, Divine Shield, Freedom is gonna feel terrible just to be able to play your class properly and not flop over and them miss on other defensive/mobility and through put talents in the Class tree.

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91

Well for my purposed talent tree, that wouldn’t be the case. Because I agree that that system is flawed.

Having 50+ “options” in the class tree, with only 31 talents doesn’t lead itself to be interesting choices. Just wrong ones.

Look at my Boomkin build!!!

Imgur

I don’t have Moonkin form, XD.

I don’t have Convoke or Primal Swarm, sure hope my damage doesn’t suffer! Yay meaningful choices, lol.

It’s silly.

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92

Seals are dead. Stop trying to bring back something that was created exclusively by Afrasiabi simply as a middle finger to people he thought might of played Paladins in EQ.

He intentionally hobbled Paladins at launch because he was a spiteful and petty punk.

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93

yes if blizzard removes dk dots :slight_smile:

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94

I still blame him for how much paladins sucked in Vanilla, too—and for giving us a seal system instead of a strike system.

That being said, seals would be more fun than blessings, and since we now have a system of strike abilities, seals could be an interesting supplement to what we already have. That’s my reason for wishing now and then that they were back.

Though to be honest, I’ve not thought seriously about bringing them back in years…

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95

Here’s the problem with that. Even asking for it is a bad idea. Because we know what Blizzard would do. They would take away the Strikes and reinvent the class for the millionth time.

At this point I want them keeping their sticky fingers off of all classes. You know why? Because it gets old having to relearn your class for the hundredth time. If I were to play FFXIV, do I need to completely relearn RDM or WAR?

No. They play as they always have, across expansions. Same experience. I get what I paid for. But with WoW? The Devs sometimes intentionally changed the classes to gin up Character Boost sales. I won’t ever be alright with that practice.

The only guys I ever felt pity for were Eyonix and Tseric, because both were trying; but when your boss is a guy who melted down and got banned from the Sony Forums… yeah.

So no. Aside from a couple classes, most classes feel rewarding to play. Paladins in Classic were NOT rewarding to play. Much like how DKs ceased to be after the Rune Change in Cataclysm that no one asked for.

…Don’t even get me started on the Zit Popping Gameplay Unholy has now.

My irritation for the record is not directed at you. My irritation is directed at the fact that Blizzard made us unplayable unless we wore cloth, and healed. Don’t think I’ll ever forgive em for that, or let them forget that most Paladins from Classic are ‘always’ going to be watching with suspicion because of it, especially when they do “Talent” revamps.

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96

It’s cool—you’re talking to the guy who make the Does Blizzard Really Hate Paladins series back in 2008 (at least I think it was around then), so I know how bad class design was back then!

TBH I can’t see them removing Crusader Strike and Templar’s Verdict, though, even if they did bring seals back. I mean, there was a time we had both those strike abilities and seals; I think people are thinking of that time when they ask for seals to make a comeback.

97

I wouldn’t mind Empowered Seals coming back as a Ret Talent tree option for those who want it, but I definitely do not want old Seals to come back baseline.

I think the old seal design, of trading one buff for another, is outdated.

I do NOT want to trade +20% haste for a snare, or a heal, or mana, or whatever. I don’t want to trade any significant buff for another.

However, it could be pretty interesting to see those being 3 talent choices in the Ret tree.

Left side is high mobility ending with Falling Sword.
Middle is that slight range Paladin with Final Verdict.
Right side is higher sustain, melee centric Paladin with Empowered Seals.

I could see a talent tree like that working out.

Ideally, Seals just become passive buffs in the Paladin trees to add flavor to the class.

Imgur

Hammer of the Righteous is Prot’s version of Crusader Strike for "Reasons."

Give Prot Crusader Strike, and make a passive “seal” in the Prot tree called Seal of Righteousness that does the same AoE baseline effect.

Is it fluff? Yea, sure. But it adds class identity and flavor. Something severely missing from these hollow specs.

Imgur

Virtuous Command is made into a passive Seal for Ret, called… Seal of Command.

It seems so obvious that all the pieces are there, just make it a more enjoyable experience…

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98

If Druids are getting Mark of the Wild back as a raid/group buff… do I dare hope we are getting our greater blessings back? And not the watered down ret ones but the old school Blessing of Might, Kings, Wisdom.

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99

would be a fair assumption yes

100

God lord no.
These kinds of buffs not only dont bring any fantasy back they are also extremely boring. Gimme baseline sanctuary or some other kinda of utility bless instead of mandatory battle shout-like boring buff.

Its a pretty incredible aura for random\rated bgs.
Being a vengeful crusader is ltierally the class fantasy.

Best time to be a ret aside cata and wrath.

I like how most of what people suggest is bringing back horrendously outdated mechs like seals and auras whereas every other class forum demands improvements instead of bringing back seal of rightneous and auto attack meta lmao.

Empowered seals were a really wierd functionality for me. Sure the buffs were cool but all the gcds you had to lose and positioning you had to do to make it counts were really bad.

101

Yeah…no. Colossal Judgment and loss of mobility really sucked. The expansion was good, but not for ret. Beginning of a constant decline.

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