Its just a simple fact that expansions and game development takes years. So once they’re at a set point it has to be released. So the time for drastic time consuming changes ends. So all that really left is tuning mostly, unless its something truly game breaking.
If you really want to get good feedback in you have to aim early in an expansion. With the intention of aiming at the next expansion. Like I did multiple times during BFA, and coincidentally Ret got no cooldown on Word of Glory again and saw the return of Final Verdict, even though in Legendary form.
Oh and be positive about with your feedback. What I mean by this is try to focus on what you do like and why(be as detailed as you can)and only this if possible. Its all to easy to tell the devs what is hated, but that doesn’t tell them what works and what is enjoyable.
A word of warning though, be careful of what you ask for. Becuase how you perceive it to be and how you think it should work, may not translate to how they see it. Divine Steed is a good example of this.
I know the devs and the players see things very differently; what looks like a problem to one eye can look like a solution to another.
Personally, I liked Speed of Light better than Divine Steed; it lasted longer, looked cooler, and had a shorter cooldown—though even if they switched back to Speed of Light, it wouldn’t bring us to the enemy or vice versa instantly the way Clash, Charge, or Death Grip would.
On that note, which problem with Divine Steed were you thinking of? I listed every one of them that I could think of.
I just want a gap closer! sorta how crusaders in diablo have that sword they can teleport to after throwing it on the ground!
wait
ret was top tier for most of sl until the kyrian nerf
i want to be able to spec into seraphim, execution sentence, final verdict, and inquisitor at the same time
riot games comin in with new mmo based on lol also being devloped by many former vet wow devs
Ever so briefly in Legion’s alpha or beta, they had that—Turalyon’s Might I think it was.
I had an idea for something kind of like a gap closer; I called it “Tribunal”: you draw a fragment of the target’s soul into a pillar of light that appears right in front of you, and you can target the pillar to do damage. A percent of the damage you do to the pillar is transferred to the enemy. The pillar is immune to multi-target damage, though.
Would that be more useful than Turalyon’s Might, or less?
They need to bring back our raid buffs
Divine storm, ES, and seraphim should cost 2 holy power or at least make one or two of these mentioned abilities cost 2 HP
I could see this being complained about in some way in the PvP forums. Something that has been complained about a lot with paladins is their mobility, no one likes the horse, and the only reason the horse feels good right now is because of an empowered conduit. I think turalyons might is a good start, but more could be done to differentiate it from just another heroic leap
I wasn’t talking viability, perhaps I should’ve added that. I was talking playstyle and overall how the spec feels while playing. Ret has its moments to shine, sure. But for me the playstyle has gone downhill since Legion.
Nah.
It would be insane in pvp, and it still wouldnt help you move in various situations like dungeons or raids to the rest of the mobs and stuff or get away in pvp.
Yea, not really sure how to feel about this ‘spend talent points for your baseline abilities’.
Let’s just hope they keep word and reiterate on those talent trees til they look a bit more…consistent.
I also feel like the trees are way too overloaded because of all those active abilities. There is nothing wrong with two, three or even four active abilities in the tree, but not almost all of them. Those trees really need to be streamlined.
Here’s my take on the whole “You have to spend talent points to get what used to get for free” thing: the ways that devs have available to them for getting spells onto our spellbars have changed over the years:
- In Vanilla through WotLK, they could only give you abilities you buy from a class trainer or a handful of abilities on your talent tree. Player agency and hybrid building potential were both high, since you could spend your talent points any way you wanted—too bad the cool stuff was so deep in the trees, though.
- In Cataclysm, they invented a new way: pick a spec at level 10, and you get an ability for free right away, and a few passives. You got a little more for free, but player agency was lowered somewhat and hybridization potential practically eliminated, because choosing a spec locked us into spending points in only one talent tree until higher levels.
- In MoP, they invented abilities you could train for (i.e. not-spend-talent-points-to-get) that only one spec could get. That was pretty new at the time, and unfortunately that took away more player agency and hybridization potential was even less than it was in Cata, because there were abilities that all specs got before they made this change, like Consecration, Holy Wrath, and Holy Radiance, that were suddenly gone from many specs’ kits. (Ouch.) And, of course, they hyper-simplified talents, which looked at the time like a wise decision because talent builds in Cata were so cookie-cutter that there were few real decisions.
- For completeness’s sake, I should add that, in WoD, they added active abilities you could get from borrowed power. In WoD this came from your garrison, in Legion it was artifact weapons, in BfA it was Heart of Azeroth powers, and in SL it’s your Covenant ability.
They’re shifting the way-the-devs-put-abilities-on-your-spellbar once again with the new talent system. Borrowed powers are gone, and now they’re putting the building blocks of how our specs are built into our hands.
…Which does mean we need to spend talent points to get things we used to get for free, but I figure the pros outweigh the cons; I’m looking forward to making soloing Holy builds that have abilities from other specs. I’ll have to switch as soon as I enter an instance, but that’s a small price to pay I think.
I wont say I knew it, but I legit knew it in advance.
That’s what they’ve been doing for years.
I hate when people say this. There’s always gonna be ‘‘cookie cutter build’’ Even vanilla and tbc has cookie cutter builds. The only reason it didnt exist before was the lack of information. But now in the internet era, you have all the information in a single google search.
So they can make talents whatever they want, there’s always gonna be a best build.
??? The only borrowed power from WoD were ‘‘Spec perks’’ like our Divine Storm procs. But it wasnt coming from a system like Covenant, or from the Garrison. It was simply a leveling perk you learned from 90 to 100. Legion Started the borrowed power we’ve known since. But WoD did remove some spells. But despite the negative view of WoD, it was the apex point of Ret design.
I don’t disagree with you about that—sorry to bring it up; I felt like I should provide context to why the MoP talent grids looked like a good idea at the time.
…I provide a lot of context, hence my name 
Ehhh…maybe I was being too broad in how I defined “borrowed power”. I remember that, in WoD, we had a button on our spellbars that let us do things like summon a steam tank, call down an artillery barrage, or summon footmen to help us fight; it was different in different zones, and we could change which power we had based on how we built our garrisons and outposts. I figured that context-sensitive Garrison ability, in retrospect, was something like a proto-borrowed power.
But maybe that was a bit of a stretch…
So, I hate the systems that come with borrowed power, I think most do. I hate the fact that at the end of an expansion, we lose all those borrowed powers and have to “start over.”
However, starting over with borrowed power usually meant the new expansion had some excitement to it. There were new things to look forward to.
From what I can see from the DK/Druid preview is, you are going to lose 60% of your player power at the end of Shadowlands.
You’re going to respec into the new talents, to get back to 50% of where you are today.
In Dragonflight, you will level up ten more levels to 70, and continue to spec until you are roughly 75% of where you are today.
The new expansion, new talent tree experience, is going to be specing into a system that makes you 75% as powerful as you are today, with almost nothing new.
Right there alone, that expansion is going to flop.
Now, take into consideration that if borrowed power is gone, that’s it for the whole expansion. 2 years of being 75% a Shadowland’s character.
I don’t want borrowed power to return, truly. I think this is a better system in the long run, but what we are seeing here is very, very underwhelming and it’s too ambitious for what it needs to be.
Ehh, That was just things to make the world (Draenor) more interactive, but it wasn’t anything baked in the classes.
Like I said, the only borrowed power from WoD were some leveling perks.
4 Passives that increased some stuff in a minor way, like forbearance lasted 20sec instead of 30. Sacrifice had 1.5min cd instead of 2. Holy power had 25% chance to make a DS free and deal 25% more damage. and HoW could be used at 35% health instead of 20%.
And then we had the ‘‘X stat increased by 5% from all source’’ depending which specs you were.
And we had a Sanctity Aura passive that increased the vers of everyone by 3%
I expected them to bring more talents choices or new spells to make them more compellent, but its exactly what we have now, with some leggo and covenant effects.
Sadly there is nothing ‘‘new’’
What I was referring to is Divine Steed didn’t turn out to be what the community, who ask for it had assumed it would be. They didn’t think they’d lose all of the other mobility abilities for it, and that it would have such a short duration and incredibly long Cooldown. But also be so ineffective and easily shutdown. I was using it as an example of be careful of what you ask for.