I don’t want to sound dismissive, because if that fits into your idea of a Paladin, and that is something you want to see, then that’s definitely worth the exploration. That’s a conversation we can have.
My point, talking with the Paladin community, which I assume is passionate to a degree about the Paladin class, which is why you’re here, lol.
Is to look at the baseline spells right now, and ask ourselves what makes an ability satisfying to press.
Avenging Wrath
Is pressing Avenging Wrath a satisfying button press?
Is the animation good? Is the spell effect good?
-Should it do something different— should it do something more?
Blessing of Freedom
Is pressing Blessing of Freedom a satisfying button press?
Is the animation good? Is the spell effect good?
Should it do something different— should it do something more?
- Should Unbound Freedom be a baseline talent? Ret, Prot, Holy, PvP?
etc…
Consecration is a very flat ability, it does no damage, which is a concern, but nothing about the spell makes me excited to press it.
Divine Steed is a very hollow ability, it increases movement speed, which is nice, but mounting up on a Steed feels very overkill when it adds no additional effect.
Why, with a huge emphasize on WHY, do you like or dislike X ability?
Those are the conversations I think are worth having going into Dragonflight. =/
I don’t have the personal time to do this, but if I were Blizzard, I would simply make a Tier list of each classes’ abilities and ask the community. At least the community council,
Don’t worry about it, this just some brainstorming
I know were you’re coming from(at least I think do)
My thoughts were to make paladins more straightforward similar between all three specs at a baseline level. So allowing all three specs to have a damage dealing holy power spender and an AoE damage holy power spender would be a step in that direction. I mean they all have a healing holy power spender.
I did actually a post about all the abilities I liked and some of the reasons why. I could just repost it again here, but I’d have to update a some of it, as it was written during BFA.
Final Verdict
Really liked its animation with the hammer smashing down. It gave a unique way for gap closing, by shortening the distance needed to close with its 10yard range.
Blade of Justice
Mostly due to its animation, but I also like its snare capability when talented with Law and Order(which should be baseline along with Jurisdiction). I like holding on to proc and using it in conjunction with Hand of Hindrance to maximize the snares duration.
Hand of Hindrance
A strong ranged snare that serves as a good replacement for Seal Justice and Glyph Burn of Guilt snares. Cool down is too long though.
Wake of Ashes
Good damage, AoE, ranged, snare, animation and holy power generation.
Unbound Freedom
Having Hand of Freedom not be dispelled is nice. But being able share the snare and root immunity with the 30% speed increase, has been quite an enjoyable experience. Being able to help an ally an yourself hunt down an enemy is fun. But the biggest boon is using it to aid a retreating ally in escaping, while also benefiting too.
I do wish this was baseline and not just a pvp talent
Word of Glory
I like it because with it and a damage holy power spender gives you a choice between playing offensively or defensively.
Eternal Flame
I know for many they won’t comprehend as to why. But for me being a solitary player it was good for world pvp and duels. Being a HoT meant that CCs wouldn’t reduce your HPS output as much.
Sure being dispellable was a negative in its own way. But for dueling this actually worked out. As classes that could dispell it, only ended up wasted many GCDs of potential damage trying keeping it down. As it didn’t have a CD and you where going to be using it consistently for its instant heal anyway. Mages on the other hand were a different story.
(I’ve heard some holy paladins would like to have this back)
Selfless Healer
Not its current iteration, but one from Mist. (Actually there was a version early on during Mist beta that I liked the most. It only took two Judgements to make Flash of Light instant but it still costed mana.)
While not the best for duels or solo world pvp. It was great for team play, arenas and bgs. Turning the tide of battle with a decisive life saving heal or heals on team mates, certainly felt rewarding.
Pursuit of Justice(MoP/WoD)
It was fairly consistent, not easily counted by a simple snare or root. Was great for pillar humping or catching those that did. And good for escaping, when used with Emancipate. Combined with Final Verdict it gave good up time too.
(I’ve actually changed my thoughts about this one a bit. At least I no longer believe it makes for good mobility’ especially not on its own. I see it more of perk, a nice little extra. Kind of a long the lines of how Druids cat form gives them 30% movement speed.)
Divine Purpose
Nothing like back to back procs to lay down the hammer, turning into a divine tornado or popping someone back up with heals. Previous iterations where the most fun, even though they may have been a little too RNG for some.
Empowered Divine Storm/ Empyrean Power(the Azerite version)
While they both work differently, they’re functionally the same. And like Divine Purpose help to turn you into a divine tornado for AoE.
Glyph of the Battle Healer
Its original version. It felt rewarding to drop a little bit of dps switchimg to Seal of Light to take a bit of the pressure off healers. It may have only been mainly used in LFR, but still. It was also fun using it to Ret tank and Ret heal dungeons too.
(I added this simply because I enjoyed it for what it was at the time. I like a bit of the off healer/battle healer role with Ret and even Prot.)
I’ll be honest. Give TV a cooldown, the wod final verdict talent back. other than adding tv to the rotation, take us back to wotlk rotation holy power sucks.
My idea of Paladins in WoW, (and not to say this is right or how it should be done, just my wishlist), is to return to that 2-handed fantasy.
Holy Paladins use 2handers and a new off hand item, Librams.
Librams are a personal loot, stat sticks. They just exist to give flavor and stats as if Holy was wearing a shield.
Protection Paladins use 2handers and Shields. While a new concept, I think this would help sell the fantasy of Paladins using their weapon to attack more than their shield.
(SotR would change, etc. - Though Avenger’s Shield would still exist as that’s a cool spell)
Retribution Paladins would continue to use a 2hander, but the addition of a Libram for Ret (stats change on spec change) could also exist.
Ability changes:
1. SotR and TV.
Shield of the Righteousness has been removed.
Templar’s Verdict has been given to all Paladins as a 3 Holy Power Spender at level 10
New Talents
Final Verdict (Ret)
Righteous Verdict (Holy/Prot)
Final Verdict
Replaces Templar’s Verdict with Final Verdict, a devastating strike that deals 5000 Holy damage.
Righteous Verdict
Replaces Templar’s Verdict with Righteous Verdict, a devastating strike that hits all enemies in front of you for 2000 Holy Damage and increasing Armor by 500 for 4.5 sec.
2. Blades of Justice and Light of Dawn turned into Exorcism
Something I want to see come back to Paladins is Exorcism, but I want it to be slightly different. I want Exorcism to be a “Cone of Cold” type of attack that does short range AoE damage to help increase Paladin’s passive healing and dps.
Blades of Justice has been removed.
Light of Dawn has been removed.
Light’s Hammer has been removed.
All Paladins now learn the ability Exorcism.
Exorcism (Ret/Prot)
- Unleashes a wave of holy energy, damaging up to 5 enemies within a 15 yd frontal cone for 1500 Holy Damage. Generating 2 Holy Power. Always crits on Undead and Demons.
Exorcism (Holy)
Unleashes a wave of holy energy, damaging up to 5 enemies and healing up to 5 injured allies within a 15 yd frontal cone for 1500. Generating 1 Holy Power. Always crits on Undead and Demons.
(Possibly toned down a bit)
3. Divine Steed, Pursuit of Justice and Unbound Freedom
I dislike Divine Steed in World of Warcraft. I think the ability is very obnoxious looking for the little it does.
Mounting up on a steed and gaining no additional effects outside of movement speed increase is just silly.
Mounting up on a Steed in in-door content, inside caves, etc… is just silly
The spell should be removed.
Divine Steed has been removed from the game.
All Paladins now learn Pursuit of Justice at level 26.
Unbound Freedom is now a Paladin Class Talent.
Pursuit of Justice - Passive
Increases movement and mounted movement speed by 20%. Does not stack with Crusader Aura.
Unbound Freedom - Talent
Blessing of Freedom increases movement speed by 30%, and you gain Blessing of Freedom when cast on a friendly target.
Unbound Freedom also causes any Blessing of Freedom applied to yourself to be undispellable.
4. Auras, “Laws” and Aura Mastery
All Paladins gain Aura Mastery baseline.
All Paladins gain Retribuition Passive baseline.
New visual updates have been given to Auras.
Laws (as a working title) are a reclassification of existing Paladin Auras - most notably in PvP.
Devo Aura
Party and raid members within 40 yards are bolstered by their devotion, reducing damage taken by 3%.
- Aura Mastery - Reduces all damage by 15% for 8 sec.
Concentration Aura
Interrupt and Silence effects on party and raid members within 40 yards are 30% shorter.
Aura Mastery - Reduces the duration of all incoming fears and horror effects by 30%
Crusader Aura
Increases mounted speed by 20% for all party and raid members with 40 yards.
- Aura Mastery - Increases mounted movement speed by an addition 40% for 8 sec.
Retribution Aura
Causes 50 Holy damage to any creature that strikes a party member within 40 yards.
- Aura Mastery - Increases reflected damage for 8 sec.
Laws:
Law of Retribution(Replaces Aura of Reckoning)
When you or allies within your Aura are critically struck, gain Reckoning. Gain 1 additional stack if you are the victim.
At 50 stacks of Reckoning, your next weapon swing deals 200% increased damage, will critically strike, and activates AW for 6 sec.
Law of Valor(Replaces Vengeance Aura)
When a full loss of control effect is applied to you or an ally within your Aura, gain 6% critical strike chance for 8 sec. Max 2 stacks.
Law of Purity(Replaces Judgements of the Pure)
Casting Judgment on an enemy cleanses 1 Poison, Disease, and Magic effect they have caused on allies within your Aura.
Law of Salvation(Replaces Luminescence)
When healed by an ally, allies within your Aura gain 4% increased damage and healing for 6 sec.
I am finally feeling better. Thanks to everyone for posting. We have some really great posts and ideas here. I hope the devs are reading this thread.
To summarize the gist of most of these posts, the Paladin community wants the WoW Paladin to be a hybrid support class again. It is hard to be a viable support class without viable support abilities, in particular:
Seals
Blessings/Hands
Auras
Healing
Cleansing
I think the key to being a successful hybrid support class is providing benefit to the Paladins group or allies.
I can speak for holy, but I would like to see a return of our blessings such as kings, might, and wisdom add some of that class fantasy, I would like to see better more useful auras.
I used to be a full time Paladin healer but no more. The removal of almost all of our support abilities and post legion changes made me lose interest in the holy spec.
Hi, Don’t Know if they’ve been mentioned. But I would like to see Blessing’s of Light and Sanctuary be brought back.
Blessing of light could be a cd like buff temporarily increasing healing done to the target by 5% or 10%.
Blessing of Sanctuary Could definitely be used as a thorns defensive similar to DH armor ability, just light dmg.
Not sure if you guys already saw the previews for dk and druid talent trees in DF, but they don’t smell like reworks. Sure, druids get Mark of the Wild back as a raid wide buff which could point to paladins getting Blessing of Kings/Might back, but the rest in the shown talent trees looks like more of the things we already got. I wouldn’t hold my breath for an overhaul although it would be really necessary.
Blizz does seem to be changing though, so that’s hopeful.
If nothing of substance changes for paladins they might listen to the community if we push hard enough.
Playing wow low key makes me feel grateful and a bit spoiled in league. Riot has a bed rep but they try lol, constant balance changes and very good lore content, it has me wishing Blizz would take notes.
Well, I think that’s the best outcome for Paladins, tbh. I think most of the “tools” are there, they are just stretched too thin across the class.
For example, having Unbound Freedom instead of Divine Steed, is a more suitable and better theme’d Paladin ability. It would be really cool to have that on all Paladins baseline (through a Paladin Class Talent) then only a Ret PvP one.
My favorite abilities from Holy’s history are Denounce and Holy Radiance.
Holy Radiance, since it had no cooldown, basically gave us a multi-target healing rotation.
Denounce was fun because it also had no cooldown, and since it had no mana cost, we could cast it while we weren’t healing. Also, it’d look just amazing with our spellbook casting animation!
What I’m hoping for in the talents for the Holy spec tree in Dragonflight: I’d like it to be architected so that a holy paladin can either spec themselves out to use a melee playstyle, or they can spec themselves out for a playstyle that’s hard-casting Holy Light and Flash of Light.
It needs to have a mana cost, its bad enough they don’t go oom in pvp(not for a significant duration). But free damage from 40 yards, no there needs to be a sacrifice.
I wouldn’t hold out too much hope on that happening. From what I’ve seen the talent trees are just all of you current abilities now(with some basic exceptions, like rotational abilities) combined with the current talents. All with maybe some slight changes made into said talent tree.
But who know the option might be there, if inadvertently. Generally though this late in the development cycle most things are pretty much set in stone. Still, ask and thou shalt receive as the saying goes.
