Also think it would be cool if they rework blessing of season to make Summer and winter dmg also healing a player. Maybe it would make it a little bit more worth picking.
But it would be nice if they would break Pally into 2 distinct Healer spec like Disc/Holy. One melee healer (What we have now) and one that focus on Range heal and buff. The playstyle would be about timing and such who to boost and when these kind of thing. I could see it beeing fun
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Sorry, don’t know how to quote from the Beta test forum. A recent post though.
.22. Of Dusk and Dawn - This talent seems to get a lot of hate, as it’s a maintenance buff basically. Which means we’ll need to make another WA to track this better.
Suggestion: Place Divine Toll here as every spec seems to get it anyway in their spec trees. Also replace Seal of Order with Ringing Clarity - not Divine Resonance as it’s a very boring effect.
I love this idea and suggested it here before. I also like the Ringing Clarity idea as well for single target fights. One additional suggestion, make the node after Divine Toll a choice node between Ringing Clarity or Divine Resonance.
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I find it annoying how most spec who get SL cov ability get a nerfed version of it without Conduit. But when hoho you go check Warrior and Shammy they have both in their tree isnt it weird. As a warrior they can pick their leggo and conduit same for shammy. But all other spec we only get the leggo effect or none. And its dumb cause they made Sl Cov ability with the conduit effect baked into it when they made it. And now we get a nerfed version of it
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Can we also fix the Jugement talent in (4,4) to also affect Healing or to don’t know give a Single Target dmg Holy spender to other spec than just Ret. (Like give Templar instead of Hammer of wrath and but hammer baseline) They better not have removed the buff for Holy that work on Crusader strike/Holy shock.
Same for Seal of Reprisal. Like really the 10% dmg could be good but hey its only Holy spender. Oh well im Holy I only have 1 bad and useless one.
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Well, they gave Shamans the covenant ability I like least - I would vastly prefer the Venthyr ability with the legendary as the next step in the tree (and for the talents following Primordial Wave or its replacement to not take 3 extra points to get the full effect).
Also, as with Divine Toll for Paladins, even though all three specs have it it it’s the spec trees, not the class tree. I like the Shaman design a lot overall, but that is something that should be changed, just as it should be for the Paladin design.
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The holy tree looks pretty depressing from a raiding perspective. To illustrate the point, Radiant Onslaught is a very powerful talent/effect for how holy paladin currently plays on live.
To get that talent, you need to take Holy Light, Illumination and Focal Light (4 points total). Holy Light and Illumination are based on casting spells which we rarely do in raid since Infusion of Light was changed to remove the quick heal. So a key talent for the melee build is locked behind multiple casting style talents.
Focal light isn’t useless, but beacon already does a lot of over-healing so it seems to have pretty limited value in raid.
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The venthyr one was good but boring as hell tough.
I dont mind having Cov ability into the spec tree but make it interesting. And shaman did it thats why it should remain in the spec tree. For all other put it in the Class tree if you make 0 interaction with it.
Like I said I dont think in all the case it should.
Warrior they added conduit + leggo effect same for all spec. So it make sense to have it in class tree.
Shammy
-Enhance get leggo + 10 free maelstorm weapon bonus
-Elem get cooldown reduction via Lava burst and then choice between Leggo effect or something similar to divine resonance.
-Resto Get healing buff then you can choose between Direct cooldown reduction or the chance proc from the conduit.
Pally only get Straight up ability + leggo effect on each spec without anything special. So it does make more sense to have it into the class tree or someone but not in the final row
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I find it fun, though as with so many of the covenant abilities it’s largely because of the legendary effect. It’s a nice and strong multi-target heal for all specs, and good damage especially for Resto and Elemental because of all the Lava Surge procs you get off all those Flame Shocks.
Yeah, it’s not exactly involved play, but I’m not a great fan of things like Vesper Totem (have to move it all the time). Fae Transfusion’s not too bad, but I’m not a fan of things that you have to click more than once to get full effect from. As for Primordial Wave, I don’t like that for the same reason I don’t like the ‘1-minute Paladin’ - I feel I’m spending all my time setting up, rather than just getting things done, and if something happens to mess up the setup your output tanks.
I’m sure it will shock you to know I don’t much like Cloudburst Totem either.
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If I had to pick i’d prefer the conduit over the leggo on Divine to be honest cause of my playset. Im one of the few Pally who prefer Beacon of Virtue over all other. And when you time your Beacon well you can do so much group healing via Divine + its Conduit.
I dont really like Cloudburst either but Healing Stream so underwhelming. I wished that Rushing stream effect would be added to Living Stream to make cloudburst more competitive cause im not not Living stream Alone is enough
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Why are there like a dozen Holy Light/Flash of Light talents?..
This outdated style is something straight out of Wrath.
If you want to stand still and cast non-stop, go play another healing class. We’ve moved on, and it doesn’t work.
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I like the direction Protection Paladin is going in Dragonflight.
Just wanted to add that, in general, I am happy with it. Seems like the beta thread is full of people who aren’t. I don’t follow discord discussions or watch many YouTube videos regarding the matter so I might be a little out of date. This is simply my impression given Blizzard’s stated design goal, reviewing the talents, and some threads on the forums.
Reading through the beta thread I was surprised to find that so many people wanted to keep the Slice and Dice er Shield of the Righteous gameplay. Get a small amount of haste and it’s basically 100% uptime. Not the most engaging gameplay. Not saying I hated it. I’ve been a pally since I started playing. No other class has come close, so far.
Having said that, Dragonflight is shaping up to be much more interesting than Shadowlands. Basically all of your rotational abilities will contribute to your tankiness via block %, absorbs, healing, and straight DR. The increased block % is great because it covers SotR’s shortcoming in that it didn’t do anything for magical damage. You can also have more offensive and defensive CDs than before. The talents allow you to fine tune your build between single target, cleave, AoE, pure DPS, pure defense, heavy CD usage, lite CD usage… and everything in between.
The tree isn’t perfect, but with proper tuning I think it could be amazing. More so than people are giving it credit for.
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Maybe because they realised that some people actually prefer that style. Unfortunately, the talents are all over the place and they don’t fully support the style, so all they’re really doing is messing up the tree for everyone.
Personally I can’t stand the Glimmer+melee style. It feels to me like a cut-rate Disc Priest that’s forced into melee. It’s also one where you actively avoid using half your toolkit (Holy Light and Flash of Light), which is terrible design.
If Paladins are to be melee healers and nothing else (too bad when the ranged need healing, with the current Mastery), they need to be rebuilt around that properly.
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Neither the class tree nor the Prot tree have much at all in the way of passive survivability. A bit of armour, a bit of avoidance, some damage reduction when standing in Consecration (which is a wee bit useless when kiting, for example in high m+ runs). All the rest relies on SotR’s use or Avenger’s Shield, and that means sitting on Shield and/or Holy Power, and that means losing DPS and taking increased ‘background’ damage whilst waiting on that big hit. It also means unexpected damage, or a run of no procs and you can be out of mitigation and having to use major cooldowns just to cover a shortfall in the standard, rotational mitigation. Also, for the tank spec the ‘free’ Stamina, Armour, and damage reduction isn’t particularly high, which strikes me as bad when we have so little passive survivability in the trees and base abilities.
A warrior can have extra Stamina and Avoidance, a ton of extra armour, a certain amount of automatic self-healing, and considerable damage reduction just from their class tree. The Prot tree adds more passive armour and Stamina increases.
Death Knights have a ton of Stamina in their class tree, plus avoidance, etc. and Blood has all that armour, leech, etc. that while it’s not truly passive takes no extra effort to apply.
Overall, I’m worried that we’ll start out weak, and even once we’ve good gear will end up as a very niche tank, and if that niche is ‘high DPS tank’ we’ll end up even squishier as to excel that role we’ll be taking damage talents, not survival ones.
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The one thing I’m getting is that too much of each spec is locked into it’s individual trees and leaving nothing for the class tree to offer except boring passives. Which means you end up picking the best throughput for your spec from the class tree and are forced to pick up those talents from your spec tree with no room for deviation or customization.
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ret: I am thinking that hand of hindrance and consecrated ground should be swapped in positions. It feels bad to pick up hand of hindrance for pve content with it having 0 pve impact really. consecrated ground at least increases consecration size by 15% which means it can cover more targets for AoE damage or healing (if your class specced into it)
I also feel the ret tree don’t have enough point lee-way to pick up flavor skills such as exorcism also.
The tree I calculated is here:
I also want to comment on the fact the last talent row prior to the 20 requirement is all pvp talents. I don’t feel pve ret paladins should be forced to waste a talent point on pvp talents, it just feels bad, especially when you consider allot of other tree’s don’t have to do that.
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Personally I find keeping up a buff at 100% is incredibly stressful and annoying, I’d rather just go back to something like holy shield where all you did was press on CD instead of having multiple charges. Unless they changed that and it’s only 1 charge now?
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I like where you are going with the Fantasy aspect for sure. Paladin is lackluster on that side. Even pulling from D3 Crusader stuff is completely fine imo
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I think these as options for all 3 specs would be legit.
If i need to spend holy power to heal it would at least have some options imo
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Please BoM and BoW was so nice to have.
I agree. Having holy shield instead of the current mastery would be so nice and fill the void that hpals currently have