And what gets me is that they gutted Blessing of Might for no reason, and going into Shadowlands we lost Wisdom and Kings albeit they were reduced to single target buffs. People cry about PI and they’re letting priests who already have a raid wide buff keep it, and we’re shafted.
4 Likes
Almost all of our support abilities have been removed; auras, seals and blessings.
6 Likes
The pally devs think that making us suck at all but one thing is what choice is.
Want to have group utility? Now your direct and aoe dmg sucks!
Want single target dmg? Now you suck at utility and aoe!
Want to do aoe? Now you suck at single target and utility!
Choosing how you suck is not interesting choice, but it’s all the devs ever gives us.
18 Likes
And thus it has been for the Paladin since the beginning. The wow devs have always feared the Paladin.
The only way we can change this is by working together, here in this forum. Keep posting your thoughts and suggestions for the Dragonflight Paladin!
4 Likes
But did you see all the holy paladin changes we got?
Yeah me neither.
1 Like
Looking at the Demon Hunter havoc tree makes me wanna puke. They just literally get everything. Their top tier talent Demonic, that ALL DH play, is only a tier 2 talent. It’s not even in their final tier 3 talents. Thats like putting Glimmer and Final Reckoning in tier 2 for us.
Holy paladin has Crusader’s Might, a tier 1 talent in its tier 3 tree. How does anything about any of the paladin talent trees make sense?
9 Likes
I don’t see why since the Havoc tree is decent but not fantastic like Enhancement or Fury. And they got “everything” because they have literally nothing else outside of what’s in the tree; that’s the entirety of Havoc from Legion-BFA-Shadowlands, with legendaries and the fair Torghast powers.
Demonic is more the equivalent Avenging Wrath as it’s basically the only way to user Metamorphosis outside of its 4minute CD, and demon form isn’t worth the 4minute CD.
The best part about the Demon Hunter trees (and updated Unholy tree) is the lack of 3 pointers and flexible path structure, which should mean Paladins should be getting another pass to normalize some aspects against the other trees.
1 Like
My issue is they created new interesting things out of nothing for the class. When you compare their tier 3 and tier 2 talents it makes paladin look absolutely awful. The ranging of abilities we have positioned in our trees make no sense given to where talents are currently.
Demonic isn’t the equivalent of Avenging Wrath, because Demon Hunters can still do good damage outside of meta whereas paladins can’t. They’ve also had multiple playstyles all xpac where paladins have had 1 up until we got tier, and even then they can still play multiple styles and be viable.
I’m not holding my breath for a paladin talent rework. They’ve communicated nothing to us, we’ve given feedback, double that of other classes, and we still got nothing. We’ve tried communicating here our concerns but also nothing.
It also really irritates me they gave alpha access to a bunch of streamers who have not been testing or providing feedback. Specifically paladin streamers that I know are not, even though they got alpha. They aren’t even playing WoW.
13 Likes
They’ve made the DH Class tree more on the side of utility as opposed to the Paladin Class tree which is heavy in throughput, so much that we don’t have any choice in PVE as ret but to take them all.
That’s certainly some kind of feat tbh and I’ve left feedback towards that.
12 Likes
100% this, and I don’t think it’s been brought up enough on the Alpha forums due to how crummy Auras, Divine Steed, and no utility feels.
I keep stressing it, but Paladins really lack those “rule of cool” class/spec abilities.
I watching these dragons fly over head, carrying people off into the distance. These Warlocks summon pit lords and 30 demons, these DKs have an army of undeath follow them like a plague.
And then there’s Paladins… Oh boy, here I go with my Dusk and Dawn buff, watch out world, I’m doing 6% more damage sometimes… woooooo.
Sell me on the idea of playing a Paladin. Why should I play a paladin in DF?
21 Likes
The fact we got the Holy tree last and its been absolute silence except for them informing us Rule of Law is meant to suck now. The playstyle of the Holy tree is all over the place except for the Light of the Martyr talent line. It’s insanity that our current tier 1 talent is in the tier 3 level for Crusader Strike lowering the CD of Holy Shock. How does something that’s been tier 1 for 3 xpacs suddenly become tier 3? The entire tree needs a redesign for flow and power.
8 Likes
I agree. I play Holy almost exclusively. I don’t personally want to play any sort of ranged caster build but I’m not going to poo poo those who do, so while I’m cool with part of the tree being geared towards that play style I’ll be talking a little more about the melee version.
I’d like to see divine toll and it’s associated talents like resonance take “of dusk and dawn’s” spot on the class tree. I also would like to see Blizzard really double down on the current meta holy necrolord/vanguard play style. Some, I’m sure, will disagree, but I love how that feels.
Light’s hammer feels like a good button to press, it does decent aoe damge and healing on a short enough cool down to use frequently with a good animation.
Vanquisher’s hammer with the conduit and unity feels like a chunky damage hit and ultimately, a good heal, with two charges on a decently short cooldown. It also adds a bit of self sustain while making us think a tiny bit about finisher use.
Judgment of the light makes hitting judgment feel good and adds a little sustain healing.
Vanguard’s momentum gives us a second charge of hammer of wrath which smooths out holy power generation during wings, give us another chunky feeling hammer throw, gives us some increased holy damage, and gives us the ability to generate a little more holy power during times we have to move from melee range.
Double beacon allows us to play more effectively with 1-2 ranged group members and helps with spot healing in aoe situations.
Unbreakable spirit give us more freedom to use our defensives and lay on hands.
I also think our 2/4 set bonus should move forward into dragon flight. It’s just so synergistic with our whole kit. We again think a little bit about tracking the word of glory to buffed light of dawn and it gives us active ways to shorten our wings cooldown.
Pally feels fun in wings and when you give us a way to work at shortening our cooldown while allowing us to fish for divine purpose and awakening procs in between it just feels fun which is what it’s all about.
The only additions I’d like to see are these:
Added group healing to consecration for a little more active light sustain.
Crusader strike to interact more with the kit beyond just generating holy power. Something as simple as maintaining the current dragon flight stat buff would be enough.
Shield of the righteous being able to proc awakening would allow us to fish for procs without using heals on people who might not need healed.
Beyond that, I really don’t need anything but if I was being greedy, having divine toll, glimmer, shock barrier, and crusaders might on top of what I already listed would make me ecstatic.
I don’t really need much new. I just want the synergy that we enjoy currently to move forward. That said, that’s just one play style and the ranged build would need far different things.
4 Likes
Most will disagree. Necro HPal is the absolute worst version of HPal to date.
1 Like
So says you.
Necrolord Shadowbreaker with 4 piece tier and the Logic Loop of Division and Rebooting Bit Band is some of the most fun I’ve had on my Holy pala since they changed the mastery. I love the melee focused, instant cast holy paladin, with the added ability to get big LOD heals off that reach everyone, I can focus on building while meleeing the enemies. The mechagon rings add passive healing just for pressing builders in melee and it feels EXACTLY like something I want to see in DF.
2 Likes
Personally, I’m not a fan of Vanquisher’s Hammer on Holy. Feels a bit too clunky for my taste, but I think it’s fine enough to be an option in the Class Tree.
I just think when they copy+paste a talent 3 times and put it in the spec trees, it’s just an indication of lack of creativity. These spots could be dedicated to something better.
And I think this goes for all Classes, not just Paladins.
For me personally, I would have loved to seen our Class Talents be:
Node 1.
- Divine Toll → Divine Resonance
Node 2.
- Templar (2h + Shield) → Seal of Order
- Probably not something everyone would enjoy, but I would’ve liked to seen the option explored as I think Paladins lack a unique class feature.
Node 3.
- Divine Purpose (or whatever) → Sanctified Wrath
Node 4.
- Exorcism (Vanquisher’s Hammer Clone) → Righteous Might
Then for each of the Spec Trees:
- For Ret, have Final Reckoning upgrade to Falling Sword.
- For Holy, have Avenging Crusader upgrade into Yrel’s Leap. (HotS)
- For Prot, have Guardian of Ancient Kings to upgrade into Tyrael’s Charge. (HotS)
I just want fun buttons to press. 
3 Likes
man, it’s absurd what they did in the tree of holypaladin, it’s much worse than that of prot and retri, they need to change it, it’s really very clumsy, the place that every talent is, all very poorly placed, besides not having added the Vanquisher Hammer or at least changed the mechanics of infusion of light was a giant disappointment
2 Likes
Am i the only one that finds it infuriating that i keep seeing large blue posts about class/spec trees that were released AFTER Paladin class/spec trees were. Mistweaver just got a huge post about their talent tree and Paladins as a whole have gotten radio silence for the majority of the time the tree has been out. We’ve gotten what? A couple small blue posts…while (like i said earlier) class/spec trees that were released shortly after or even well after our tree was released have gotten a big blue post IF NOT MULTIPLE big blue posts about their respective trees. I wouldn’t be surprised if Paladins are last on the list like we always are. We’ll go into DF broken as usual and EVENTUALLY (as in towards the end of the XPAC) we’ll get “FIXED”.
2 Likes
It doesn’t bother me too much. It’s not really like a round robin kind of thing in practice. Fixes get done based on a lot of other factors beside which order things started in. I would rather they take the time they need than try to force out a fix too early just to meet a schedule. It’s still early enough in the cycle that I am still hopeful
1 Like
I guess i’m just moreso annoyed about the complete radio silence on anything Paladin. This is usually how it happens as well. We provide a TON of feedback and we here almost NOTHING about our class until RIGHT before the xpac drops and then by that time it’s already too late. I just don’t want that to happen again but it happens almost every single xpac.
2 Likes