Fueled by Violence - You are healed by 30% of the dmg dealt by Deep Wounds.
Another passive one for Arms i found…
Also i see this was added to the pala changes:
[ Afterimage] After you spend 120 holy power, your next Word of Glory echoes onto a nearby ally at 30% effectiveness
I mean… what is the point of this?
I cast 7 Templar Verdict’s and then i can WOG myself and another ally will get 30% of its effectiveness?
At least they added the 50% more dmg on Judgment we get on live as a rank, as it was missing from beta.
[ Judgment] Judges the target, dealing (63.4%95.1% of Spell power) Holy damage
Judgment
2 Likes
Warriors also get 5% movement speed passive and we get … 2% speed and avoidance. They get to pick multiple ccs and healing, new spell reflect is a magical damage dr on top of reflect on a 25s cd
Our trees were updated. They just changed cleanse and the 4% crit talent spots. Done we are fixed now.
What a joke
1 Like
Let’s not be hasty here, it looks a little thinner than before.
You can see they took out the Judgment generating 1 HP now… we’re getting that baseline now, right? right??
I can get cleanse easily now though and Judgment of Light.
But our tree is too straightforward. 
This is cookie cutter 100%.
1 Like
I was looking at the spells we get for free that are out of class and spec trees for ret.
So far Ive noticed divine shield, judgement, crusader strike, flash of light and word of glory.
Why cant steed be added there? And instead of stead and the other nodes for it we get aura mastery? Divine protection?
2 Likes
I mean I wouldn’t mind that back but speaking from someone that Has been playing on classic quite a bit I just don’t want that to be the only thing paladis Bring personally I just wish they would get rid of holy power granted personal opinion but I’ve never liked it.
Holy cow, I thought the afterimage change was bad enough. Now we can’t make judgment generate holy power as Holy. Both those talents were actually seeming pretty decent. One got nerfed into oblivion and the other removed entirely.
The only change that was even remotely impactful or requested was the addition of divine resonance. I really want to be excited but the class tree has me worried and as a Holy main there’s still no working tree for us to provide feedback on.
3 Likes
Yeah I saw that and was quite disappointed, because I was looking forward using Afterimage for pvp(and pve). It reminded me of an old talent back in Cata in the holy tree, Protector of the Innocent I think it was called. Anyway it would heal you for nice (small) amount when you healed someone with Word of Glory. But you know I’d actually wouldn’t mind if they gave paladins back BFA’s version of WoG back(as it own ability of course). I used to enjoy popping the team back up quickly in mythic plus with it(back in BFA when I could still get invited)
As for Judgement I don’t understand why it shouldn’t generate holy power for holy. I mean what difference does it make for it too? Then again if it were up to me a lot more things would generate holy power. Like personally I’d have Flash of Light generate holy power for all paladin specs(well more so for Ret, because if you’re gonna stop attacking to cast a few Flash of Lights, you may as be rewarded/compensated for doing so) Just thought.
3 Likes
Just noticed that the talent Ashes to Ashes https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=383276/ashes-to-ashes has been nerfed, it now only gives a 2% Seraphim state buff, compared to Actual Seraphim’s 8%https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=152262/seraphim
That quite a hefty nerf.
Anyway I was thinking that a few Talents in the Ret tree could be swapped round to make it feel better(from my prospective at least)
Those are Execution Sentence, Executioner’s Will, Avenging Wrath:Might/Crusade and Liadrin’s Fury.
I think The talent node of Avenging Wrath:Might/Crusade could swap with Execution Sentence and Executioner’s Will with Liadrin’s Fury. As I believe more people would rather have better access to Avenging Wrath:Might then Execution Sentence overall. Also Liadrin’s Fury really isn’t worth being an end talent, though I don’t think it worth being a talent at all.
1 Like
You can have fairly easy access to Avenging Wrath: Might though, so no point swapping. The real problem is the 9 points required in the top part of the tree. Blade of Justice should already be defaulted so we can have 8 as intended and have the extra point for the mid-portion of the talent tree.
Also, can anyone confirm or deny that Judgment doesn’t generate HP by itself as Retribution? Because I only see Prot having that ability baseline atm with Holy and Retribution not having it in the listed changes.
2 Likes
Ret aura is actually pretty nice looking on the talent tree… Check out the DF version. I honestly think it might even be the go for prot pally over Devo.
1 Like
Well it depend. Does it count each player health and do math. Or does it only proc if its a 1 hit that does 50% of your hp in direct hit.
Cause if it doesnt count and you need a 1 hit that deal 50% its still useless
1 Like
Its kinda sad that they nerfed Seal of mercy to only affect healing. It could of been a great talent for ret/prot to do Dmg on boss with all consecration talents
1 Like
Wow… that sucks.
Now what? They have to change the buff name right?
How does it stack with the Seraphim from the class tree?
Does it:
a) 4%+8% = 12% Seraphim power when they overlap
b) Main Seraphim overwrites proc Sera (or worse the other way lmao)
c) The strongest one counts = they degrade their full power due to not fully stacking
I really hope it’s option a)
Any pally here in Alpha to test it out?
2 Likes
This is… dreadful actually.
Edit: it’s 4% with 2 points (cut in half)
The trees were already not quite right but the change they do make are nerfs…
They did move cleanse in the first part of the class tree but the Ashe to Ashes nerf is a complete curve ball. Where does it even come from?
1 Like
The trees seem clunky, especially after the most recent change. The general paladin tree feels like we are spending a ton of points just to get baseline abilities. While this isn’t uncommon, its strange we need to spend 3 points total just to get normal Avenging Wrath. The thing that is uncommon about the paladin general tree, is we really have no opportunity to get abilities that used to be locked to a single spec. The one ability all paladins can get is Blessing of Spellwarding.
In my opinion, it would be better to have spells such as Divine Protection, Holy Shock, or templar’s verdict (to name a few) into the general tree.
2 Likes
Even as it was, it was still a truly gross waste of talent points, and it is even worse now, of course.
1 Like
There’s not been much communication from Blizzard when it comes to what Ret Paladins are supposed to BE.
See the Warrior Dragonflight Feedback thread on the alpha forums for example. Devs are quite clear about the intended design for Warrior.
My questions for Ret Paladin specifically are:
- What is it that has prevented Ret from getting raid/group wide utility like direct damage gains or combat res or the like?
- Are we supposed to bring big damage to offset our lack of utility?
- Is BoP and BoF and BoSac of equal weight to, say, heroism in Blizzards eyes?
- Is Blizzard satisfied with our defensiveness? Do they have data that shows we don’t actually die more than other classes?
- Are they trying to “fix” consecration because they know it’s not fun or do they think it’s a cool ability that deserves to be even more of our core ability pool?
7 Likes
I do like my shaman better than my Paladin right now.
Shhhh don’t tell anyone that I said that 
1 Like
Haha true Shammy are quite sweet. even if I lost my Acid rain talent
1 Like
Definitely trying to fix.
“It feels bad to press”
Why?
“It deals no damage”
- See Incandescence, Calm before the storm and Consecrated Blade (lets you stack more than 1 at a time effectively doubling/tripling it potentially)
“It doesn’t interact with our kit”
- See Sanctification (generate HP), Consecrated Blade (interaction with AoW), Incandescence (Interaction with spending HP) and Exorcism now
“It’s static and doesn’t provide utility so tank will move out of it, it’ll never work”
Just a dumb argument, many classes have static AoE damage spell similar to Consec yet it works on them, why can’t it work for Ret? Hell it works fine for holy
- See Consecrated Ground which makes it larger (better uptime) and slows by 50% ( takes twice as long for them to get out of it so even better uptime AND it’s now a tool to help your tank kite)
- In a lesser extend to our DPS role see Golden Path which now heal 5 people
“Well I don’t like it anyway”
People don’t like it because it never did what they are trying to make it do in the first place.
“It’s 9 point to sink into it to fix it, it’s not worth it”
- Output wise on the Ret tree there is
- Consecrated Blade
- Sanctification
- Calm before the Storm
- Consecrated Ground
- ish Exorcism but to me that’s a stretch it’s not a consec talent, it’s a ST damage spell that stands on it’s own and happens to also cleave with consec
Where are the other 4 points? CLASS TREE
- Incandescence
- Hallowed ground
In reality that’s 6 points not 9, and 7 if you want to really stretch it with Exo.
The other CLASS tree talent are CLEARLY aimed at holy being able to use consecration to heal too.
But it’s not necessarily relevant to Ret DPS role.
Is 6 talent too much? IMO yes it is still too much. Consecrated ground and Calm before the storm could be made into 1 talent easily.
In the Class tree Hallowed ground should probably just not exist IMO it compete with both Incandescence and Touch of light (Nerfed Ligth’s decree) so there is no point for it being there.
Is this perfect? No, I’ll say this again in this thread, the consecrated blade effect should be made to work with consuming a judgement debuff instead. Which would open up a path for interactions with Divine Toll and Boundless judgement (if they buff it) while also giving you more control over when it is drop at the start of the fight instead of waiting for a proc.
And YES, the base damage needs to come up a bit for all of this to tie in nicely.
4 Likes