While I wouldn’t be opposed to having an increased range we shouldn’t forget that paladins already have extended reach with some of our baseline abilities being ranged. I don’t know about rogues, but the only ranged attack I can think of the top of my head is Pistol Shot.
That being said mid-range WoD paladin would be SO cool.
2 Likes
I was talking about the name… Blizz basically trolling us.
But Paladins receiving something like that for 1 point which works some of the time… when using Divine Steed which has low amount of uptime.
Versus all rogues getting acrobatic strikes 3 yards that works all the time.
And yes, paladins have Judgment which is ranged, and Blade of Justice not so short range which both won’t be increased by the talent.
But rogues have more mobility than us before and after this they’ll have more range more often than paladins.
3 Likes
Yea, they got to do something. Either give us more range via something like Acrobatic Strikes or better mobility and slowing capacities. With everyone getting more mobile from expac to expac it seems like a joke that paladins and deathknight are still as mobile as a trashcan,
5 Likes
No doubt they have fun with it and play around a bit, which is fine cause it shows they are aware.
This is my concern. That this is gonna be Paladin redesign number 5, where we are now mounted crusaders 1/3rd the time, and we have to suffer these awkward play styles instead of rogues being better designed to be more “stealthy” and “close combat.”
The “Anti Evil” theme can be seen in Retribution with WoA, stunning Demons and Undead, but outside of that… that’s it.
What is Holy and Prot’s examples of showing control and strength vs the undead? And so-on…
What is the Paladin Identity? Cause right now on live, it feels lost and the incoming solution is “mount up on your pony more!”
“A huge staple in the Paladin’s Identity is their Charger”
- Why is that? Do you feel connected to your Sunwalker? To your Direhorn? Or your Ruinstrider?
Or is this just a made up Diablo Crusader (Human Paladin) style being forced upon everyone else?
3 Likes
It’s kind of funny when they framed survival hunters as a midrange spec and now they’re transferring that to evokers and pretending it’s a unique thing when Ret had it back in 2016. Like how they took meta from locks and gave it to DHs. Would be really nice if the devs were allowed a bit more room for creativity regarding spec design.
6 Likes
It does cheapen the gameplay when you realize other classes suffer cause of an idea they arent allowed to have for 2 different playstyles.
2 Likes
They used to have Holy Wrath, an AoE damage ability that stunned undead and demons. But it seems to have been replaced with Wake of Ashes for Ret only.
I don’t know if the other specs should have Wake of Ashes, but perhaps a return of Holy Wrath for them would be sufficient.
Simply put those other races(horde)are not paladins, gameplay wise they may play the same. But they’re not paladins, so that’s where these issues arises from. So ultimately the aesthetics and Iconography of a Paladin has to be based around the Human Ideal. Because that’s what paladins actually are. Which in turn also effects gameplay of the others. As Paladins are also Cavalry charging in upon faithful steeds.
1 Like
I’m not implying Holy and Prot should have Wake of Ashes, but it does feel like they are missing something to highlight the anti Undead theme of the class.
Which obviously Exorcism coming back for the whole class would help with a lot, but Consecration, SotR or even Sense Undead could be made into more “anti evil” abilities.
This isn’t top of the list by any means, but imagine if Sense Undead became a small flavor ability like Spectral Sight, where you could sense Undead and Demons through walls, and whatever, and it caused them to show up on your Mini Map for 20 sec.
Use the abilities we have, but take them to the next level.
That’s a fair point.
However I do think that’s something to reiterate. There are different races who look to the Holy Light and use it in their own way. (Falling down the rabbit hole of RP)
The Human Paladin theatrics should be a viable option for those who do like and want the Divine Steed to stick around, but it by no means should be the one and only choice.
And I’m really hoping that will be the case, but it’s good to give feedback on it as much as possible now while in Alpha.
2 Likes
While it may look cool from a RP standpoint nothing good comes from doubling down on the anti undead theme. Wake of Ashes stun is hardly noticeable on the 1 dungeon it has any use and even then it just makes the mobs hit DR on CC faster. Exorcism being usable only on Undead and Demons was horrible, made it worthless in 90% of the game.
If we were to go like into the anti evil lifestyle, everything we’re fighting would just have to be counted as evil cause otherwise having these flavor things on our abilities is mostly worthless.
1 Like
Yea, not a big fan of this anti undead thing either. It’s just too niche. That being said, things like WoA stunning only undead is ok in my book, as long as the slow on everything else remains.
What I’d like to see for WoA is the dot again and it generating 5 HoPo plus some sort of CDR (every spender reduces CD by 1s or the likes).
1 Like
We need something like that, but for most of out spenders, we need some interplay, we need CS to have a proc of something, a dot, an extra attack, something happening on crit. Same for Boj, just ANYTHING that connects our abilties together and it feels like we are actually palying a kit instead of 5 abilities being played on their own with the only correlation being generating or consuming HP, its not enough to make the gameplay engaging anymore. Make them better, more interesting and stronger, if you have to nerf spenders for the sake of better generators with more flavor please just DO IT.
4 Likes
Our abilities have to have better synergy and this is not to change everything so it only works on undead, but just a simple “nod” to it like Wake of Ashes.
Not everything has to be about the min/max portion of the game, Spells such as Sense Undead is a very outdated spell compared to things such as Spectral Sight, which just feel better to press in 2022.
2 Likes
Except that nod just becomes wasted design time and space when it doesnt do anything in 99 percent of the game.
Look at Turn Evul, how many times do you get to use it and someone wasted time suggesting it came back and then making sure it works in game.
1 Like
I’d definitely use it if it wasn’t a fear but a sheep. But who wants a feared undead running all over the place potentially pulling other mobs?
1 Like
I use it almost every game in PvP vs the Warlock/DK meta we have right now. It’s actually been incredibly useful.
WoW is still an RPG, right?
5 Likes
It’s not usable on that many mobs to begin with, so even if it was a sheep you still aren’t using it that often.
I don’t see any PVP games on your character so I’m gonna say that’s not true, also if someone is letting you get off Turn Evil casts and not interrupting and killing you, they probably suck.
So let’s just have a bunch of worthless buttons that have no value that took time and effort out of improving the class to design?
1 Like
ya kinda agree with renae here, flavor buttons are nice and such but its honestly more of an annoyance than anything. dont get me wrong, using wake on dungeons like NW or TOP is really neat, but its limited to those two dungeons only, a mass aoe stun is hella useful. but on single target or when a mob gets more stun reduction thanks to wake, it becomes a issue. not to mention we barely used are flavor ability.
turn evil is barely used for anything pve related. sense undead is also never used. i dont mind the circle jerk people have for exorcism, but dont highlight its worse quality and say “it was great~!!!” because the undead/demon thing for it was very niche and hardly used.
like demon hunters and the “soar” ability. i rather blizzard fix the core issues of the spec before adding rp stuff that adds nothing but flavor
5 Likes
I sort of agree. The nuts and bolts of the spec need to be tightened down and finely tuned. Yet, at the same time we don’t want to lose the flavor of the spec either. And that’s another issue, our flavor is all over the place.
We’re supposed to be immobile, but we’re supposed to be cavaliers.
We’'re supposed to be about retribution, but we have an ability that encourages us to stand in fire, and another ability to let our teammates die for our own benefit. Holy and Prot overshadow us easily.
8 Likes
??? i think your looking WAYYYYYYYYY to deep into the flavor thing tbh. ret paladins flavor is literal “a holy knight using holy power to strike down their foes” what kind of paladin YOU want to be, is entirely up to your imagination.
if anything ret aura is our retribution flavor, shield of veng “stand on fire” is more retribution flavor, and being immobile vs cavalier is just a dumb thing to mention in general
2 Likes
lol yeah, this always added to the silliness of Divine Steed for me. Here’s a 5 ton Kodo, that’s also snared, for 3 seconds! “Class Fantasy.”
2 Likes