They should just buff Consecration for ret to do 10 times the dmg it does now at a base.
Then the talents would be worth it.
That would give ret better aoe… not like ret doesn’t need it.
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Hallowed Ground is a Prot pvp talent currently, which makes Consecration clear and suppresse all snare effects on allies within its area of effect. Which would be nice to have, plus also Consecrated Ground(your Consecration is 15% larger, and enemies within it have 50% reduced movement speed). Would at least give it some use in pvp.
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Does anyone else hate the idea of having to use Divine Steed as a form to get our 3yd range on our abilities? It just feels like another Shield of Vengeance blunder. “The rets wont use their only defensive for damage” -Blizz devs
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They won’t waste a talent to give us 3yd range on our Divine Steed (I mean Steed is there anyways to GET into range, so that would be redundant). I’m pretty sure they will either add the interaction with Crusader Aura again or they are going to scrap the talent completely.
TLDR: Seal of the Templar makes absolutely no sense in its current iteration.
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I hope not, that sounds terrible.
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Outlaw rogues have Acrobatic Strikes, a current talent that increases the range on all their attacks by 3 yards.
In DF, that talent is being change to only increase the range of their attacks by 3 yards, when Blade Flurry is active.
Long Arm of the Outlaw, lol. The paladin class is just a meme.
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It IS funny, I give them that.
Yea, ok, perhaps this is the “let’s make talents with zero sense” expac.
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Great post! Cynical is a good word for the current weak or non-support paladin class. We never asked to have seals, blessings and auras completely removed from the class. We were never consulted or asked for our opinion.
Devs,
Do you understand that this is how you got to the current state of WoW?
You got here by disregarding your own player base. Looks like you are doing it again.
I have created many viral threads in this forum soliciting opinions and suggestions from the paladin community. Not to impose my opinion but to generate discussion and build consensus.
To sum up what I have found in this thread so far:
- Paladins have and will continue to have mobility issues in wow especially when compared to other classes.
- Paladins want to bring something “paladin” to the table in pvp and pve that will get them invited to groups and raids.
- That something is to be a viable support class again, for each Paladin spec.
- Paladin performance in key roles and areas of the game is lackluster. Not terrible but not that great either.
- Some believe the Paladin class is fine the way it is.
Here is what I want for the DF Paladin from my group or raid:
“I need Kings”
“I need Wisdom”
“I need Might”
“Can you judge wisdom?”
“Devotion please.”
“Judge Vengeance (for a crit on target buff maybe)”
“Ret aura please”
“Dont forget to Cleanse”
“Beacon the tank”
And so on…
WoW was or should be a rock-paper-scissors game. Rock-paper-scissors creates the need for a particular class, role or ability in a particular situation. What we have now is rock-paper-facepalm. When your buff or debuff is not as good as another class’s version of the same buff or debuff, they are needed and you are not, hence rock-paper-facepalm.
Edit: The last blue post in the WoW Paladin forums was Feb 4 '19.
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I wait for the release of the official alpha paladin talents. I have the suspision that Blizzard has done it again, where they just made a decision that affects paladins as a whole without taking our opinions on the current state of Paladin in World of Warcraft. It looks like they are adding “Seals” back, but they are nothing like what we currently had, have or asked for. But instead they are giving us passives with “Seals” just tacked on.
With the datamined talent for Ret in particular, it has me very worried. Instead of just getting the extra 3yd on our abilities, we have to use Divine Steed to get the extra range. Where you have rogues getting a free 3yd, and Outlaws getting an extra 3 on top of that.
I just want the class I love to be “Good” again. I want to be desired because I bring x, y or z that the group just cant live without. Or I want to blast so much damage, that we cant be ignored.
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I’m waiting as well, but there’s always the concern that it will be too late by time they do release the Paladin talents to give any meaningful feedback.
My concern is that on the design half of it, Ret Paladins are just watered down versions of combat rogues and that’s becoming apparent.
Combo Point = Holy Power
Sinister Strike = Crusader Strike
Pistol Shot = Exorcism
Dispatch = TV
Blade Rush would be any Paladin Charge
Grapple Hook would be any Falling Sword
Etc…
We’re holy versions of Rogues with less tools and options, so they almost in a panic give us this half baked “Crusader” play style where we are mounted and that’s now our new theme to separate us, whether it makes sense or even if we like it or not.
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Well said. We must not fall prey to cynicism or bitterness. We should offer constructive, respectful criticism and positive suggestion. And then if we are again relegated to the dungeon of disappointment we must gird ourselves with the shield of the paladin’s faith and fight our way out of it.
Ok I got carried away…
But we must remember that Blizzard has new masters in Microsoft games that have shown themselves to be very cognizant of the concerns of their player base. Let us hope that they will soon have blizzard pointed in a new or even “Classic” direction in wow. Halo Infinite and Age of Empires IV are both a lot of FUN to play and are very good and well crafted games which are loved by those who play them including me.
Have you forgotten about FUN Blizzard?
WoW is a game, it is supposed to be FUN.
I will reminisce for a moment of days of WoW gone by. I remember my beloved TUF mace which I still have in my account that made a satisfying thump when smacking some arrogant, tusked orc upside the head. Do you know what sound that mace makes now?
It sounds like I am banging on a trash can lid. Again, change that we did not want or need Blizzard. There was no need to change the sound that melee weapons made when whacking something(or someone) with them. The 2h mace had a satisfying thump, the sword had a menacing slicing sound and the axe a satisfying crack. Now we are banging on a trash can lid every time we hit something with a 2h weapon.
Can you imagine the rapture that we would experience if we logged into our DF Paladins, opened up our talent trees and found some facsimile of the WoW Classic/BC/LK talents which effects, buffs and abilities that were familiar to many of us?
Imagine activating an actual devotion aura and hearing that satisfying sound that spoke to our group, “I will be your paladin today and I am here to protect you from harm”. Instead we will be prancing around in our next paladin tier set IF we were fortunate enough to be invited to a raid so that we can feel marginally useful with our sometimes tanky, holy warrior, cleric class that sounds like a 2000s anime-style mmo grinder.
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No thanks, you wanna support go play Classic, no one else wants that trash life back. Literally the worst version of Paladin there has ever been.
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You can only speak for yourself and not for everyone else. There are some who agree with you in this thread. Most would like to see the paladin become a support class again.
You mean like you’re trying to speak for them right now, I would bet that you are about as wrong as you can get and that very few people want to play support in this game.
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I welcome all opinions in this thread. I sometimes try to summarize others opinions. I can add the sentiment that some have that the Paladin is fine the way it is. Thank you for expressing your opinion. As I said some of the posters here agree with you.
dont speak for everyone, no one wants to see paladin put back in a support type of role again. “support buff classes” cannot work in any way in this game. at most you have externals and even then its annoying to get spammed whispered “give pi” when your a spriest. even the support buff classes in ff14 are horrible to play, because if you mess up once, your done your entire performance is ruined
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Ok so your standard for a support class in WoW is FFXIV. The wow paladin did start out as a pure support class in vanilla wow, but became more versatile in BC and LK without losing its support heritage. If you played the Paladin from vanilla wow through lich king, you would know that paladin bears little resemblance to any class in FFXIV including the Paladin. My FFXIV main is a Paladin and that class or Job is nothing like the WoW Paladin. The FFXIV Paladin does have some support abilities but is limited to one role, tank and one weapon, 1h and shield. The FFXIV Paladin is not a hybrid, it cannot function as dps or healer, it is a pure support tank. I like the paladin “job” in FFXIV but it is nothing like the WoW paladin.
Edit: Now that I think about it, making the WoW Paladin more like the FFXIV support-tank Paladin would be a great idea. It is both an effective tank and an effective support class. However, it does not have seals or blessings. The FFXIV Paladin does have abilities that are reminiscent of Auras and it provides some nice defensive buffs to the group. If the WoW Paladin prot spec were cloned from FFXIV, it would be considered seriously overpowered in WoW. Imagine a damage shield that can protect an area large enough to protect the entire raid from damage for several seconds, that is just for starters.
You might be thinking of the White Mage. I have a white mage in FFXIV, I like it. It is a powerful support healer but it is more like a wow priest than a paladin.
Paladins were crammed into the support role in Vanilla, and I personally didn’t like it. I was thrilled when we became viable tanks in TBC, and again when we became viable DPS in WotLK—though at that point, I’ll admit we still had most of our buff spells.
Personally, what I’ve seen people asking for consistently is Blizzard unpruning Denounce, and asking for a charge ability for Ret.
Personally, I actually like Holy Power—being able to build up to a spell and cast it feels nice.
Also—shoot, I had this thread about my idea Holy talents; if you search for “my ideal holy paladin talents” with the forum search feature, you’ll find it—I could use some more feedback on them. I don’t know if Blizzard is listening (I wish they’d break their silence, even if it was just to tell us that they are looking at class forums in general!), but it might be worth it to look at my latest draft.
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If Paladins become a support class then they’ll either be absolutely required or completely avoided for M+.
The problem with M+, as it was when Arena was introduced, is niche specs have no real place in small groups sizes.
In raids, especially the old 40 player ones, sure, a support class can more beneficial than additional DPS as their utility buffs the entire raid. You don’t get the same benefit in a small group unless the buffs are extremely powerful (like Hero/Lust), but then they become mandatory.
This was actually the problem with Paladins Night Fae ability blessing of the seasons in SL BETA. It was so powerful it would of been mandatory so they nerfed it into uselessness.
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I laughed and cringed at the same time when i saw that.
If ret doesn’t get Long Arm of the Law back, but rogues get that… it’s like, wtf Blizz?
No… they still have Acrobatic Strikes for 1 point in the Rogue Class tree in the middle for ALL rogues to grab:
It’s honestly a joke… a rogue that uses short melee weapons to have a bigger range than a 2h wielding paladin.
Going to be amazing for Outlaw to have 11 yards range on everything, lmao.
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