Yes but marginally an RPG. Diablo II is an example of a good RPG.
True, WoW leaves little to be desired in the RP aspects lol, but I thought this thread would be more about all Paladins entering Dragonflight, as suggested by the thread title.
Sometimes that includes Prot and Holy Paladins, and do they feel if they bring any anti-evil buttons to Plaguefall or Necrotic Wake?
It feels like it’s turning into “Dragonflight Ret Paladin Raiding Thread.” Let’s not shut the door on creativity because it doesn’t fall into your niche.
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I have covered all specs on my posts. Ret does seem to be the iconic Paladin spec but I think that Prot and Holy are just as important. I have played Prot in SL.
Class homogenization is the enemy of role playing in an RPG.
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I’m pretty sure zero time went into returning Turn Evil and spell books aren’t limited by space. It’s a flavor spell, them taking it away won’t guarantee a return of something greater or even anything at all. I’d rather have it for niche situations than nothing at all.
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Give holy back Rebuke, Sacred Shield, Eternal Flame and our absorb mastery, pretty please.
Edit: Forgot to add Execution Sentence (Stay of Execution) for holy 
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Zero time, yeah that’s just not possible, little time, maybe, but think you gotta make sure the spell is in the game, can be used in the game, works in the game, doesn’t bug the game, time went in no doubt. Now what could they have done with that time, well maybe BUFFED CONSECRATION, or looked at the fact we have almost 0 cleave. There are 100% other more important things that could have used the 5 minutes, 5 days, whatever time it took to waste putting in “flavor” like Turn Evil.
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I am thinking we may get a return of blessings and or seals considering the emphasis they placed on totems for shaman.
Most important tho is #RETLEAP
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The Classic Paladin (Vanilla/BC/LK) has its flaws but it is a better, more fun class to play than the current paladin imho. I cant wait to play the LK paladin again.
I am not interested in playing the DF Paladin.
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Lol no way dude. How is seal dancing or just spamming stuff on cd better? Come on now current ret has its flaws but they can be fixed in no time by the general concensus other paladins have voiced here.
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Lol you can’t put Wrath in the same category as BC and Vanilla. Vanilla literally the worst expansion for ANY form of Paladin and BC Ret was maybe the worst leveling experience ever, not to mention it wasn’t that fun at the end game either.
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So hear me on this.
The whole thing about consecration is that by itself in ret spec it feels bad to press.
It doesn’t interact with your other abilities, it doesn’t hurt and if the tank moves it’s gone.
I genuinely think it doesn’t necessarily have to hurt much more than it does right now but do need to “not be pressed” since (to me) that’s the part that feels bad about it.
What I would do for Dragonflight?
First I would insert a talent somewhere that makes it so that on top of increasing you spender damage your judgment on a target when consumed would also drop a consecration.
Second, I would make it so that consecration can stack instead of disappearing when re-applied.
Third I would let the judgement interaction work with divine toll.
No need to press it anymore, since it’s not a massive amount of damage you don’t feel to bad if the tank get out of it and ultimately if played correctly you can too a decent amount of damage with it on a big pull since it’s uncapped.
Id love to see 5 consecration get drop at the same time and cover a massive terrain XD
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I think that it simply comes down to the fact that in general, Prot and Holy are in a good position currently. So there’s less to discuss in terms of improvement when compared to Ret.
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Just bake the golden path into cons, I love the healing it does maybe make it affect others.
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A few things I’m really hoping to see in 10.0…
sorry total chicken scratch thoughts on the page plz no judgment (lolret)
Paladins have a really great pure throughput toolkit in shadowlands in my opinion. Although I felt it was under tuned, and it was hard to get groups. The meta kyrian build through 9.1 was really fun to play using Seraphim, Final Reckoning, Execution Sentence, into Divine Toll and rip massive Templar’s Verdicts was a really fun spec for me, I’m aware some people weren’t into it.
BUFF CRUSADER STRIKE DAMAGE ITS TODDLER STRIKE
This kind of means that there’s two types of ret paladin I think people are looking for:
the 1 min burst build (or something similar, final reckoning w/o ex sent still pretty fun imo) vs. the reactive proc style. I feel like this playstyle would be cool to comeback but with the option to vary your cooldown lineups, 45sec ashes, 45s seraphim but holding them for 1min CD’s / wings felt really bad.
The burst spec also needed some AoE added to Execution sentence, or somehow tied into the rotation more so than using the same 10 sec CD rotation and doing the exact same thing except Divine Storm in lieu of templar’s verdict. the execution sentence or a new spell that iterates on SL ret would be cool to make more Aoe.
Either make them all line up or possibly talent it to change CD’s. Seraphim using dps resource is weird. DPS outside of 1min burst was totally trash so maybe a 45sec build is better and will fit most pulls in m+ for example.
Our DPS output undertuning stings even more mostly because we lack so much 5man utility, we really could use a Brez or Aura Mastery (apparently had it in MoP but I didnt see much of mop at all)
Even though we can be a competitive player and pull decent DPS compared to others, the meta utility REQUIRES a BREZ and LUST… Please give RET a Brez or something like you did with the PvP talent. (Also mobility, we are slow af and melee tf blizz come on.)
I saw a datamined leak of seals that work together with auras, and that could be really cool. I dont want to seal twist, that is garbage design. I like the other ideas though
2nd point of playstyles:
I don’t know as much about wod, played super casual a month before legion. I think it was fun though! Ham
I also feel like if someone wanted to play a more WoD Ret style, they could talent Final Verdict but then have vanquisher’s hammer in tandem or something, but it needs to be like WoD tooltip otherwise I feel people wont like it as much.
WOD ret seems more like a reactive playstyle where you get procs and use them as you get them but SL ret was definitely more planned which was fun, but felt terrible if you mistimed your CD’s.
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I’m 99% sure it’s gonna be a side talent for consecration. I can already see the diagonal line going to it and then going nowhere. XD
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Balancing two different playstyles doesn’t work, look at Single Minded Fury or Obliterate vs Breath, even something like Night Fae Boomkin vs Venthyr, one build will always suffer.
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Make it 100%.
Golden Path: Consecration heals you for (Attack power * .05 * 0.5) every 1 sec while standing within it.
Seals are already back as passive effects (Seal of Clarity, Seal of the Templar) and we won’t get Blessings back because they already said they don’t want too many raidbuffs to not make too many classes mandatory.
Of course they then give raidbuffs to rogues which makes a lot more sense then to give them to paladins. /s
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Yes but we are entering a different era of wow with different talent builds.
If you look at the released trees there’s already 2-3 different builds with different playstyle in them.
So I can see it happening. We could have a single target / aoe / heavy procs / 1min build would be nice if sera and wake could go down to 30sec, though…
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Lk paladin has a 30 minute seal duration and you don’t need to refresh it after judgment. it is nothing like vanilla or tbc.
Seal twisting has its place in classic. It wouldn’t work in the modern game given how fast everything is in every class. We can’t watch swing timers
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What’s even more important: we don’t want to!
I wouldn’t be opposed to get Seal of Truth and Righteousness in it’s Cata/MoP/WoD incarnation back, but as others already stated: getting those back will just lead to other abilities being nerfed to balance the damage so it would be a zero net gain.
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