Never cared much for Guardian/Zealotry myself. They further forced us into the niche of a cooldown-centric spec. Ret is already good during wings, I want talents/abilities that let it to be fun/interesting outside of cds.
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That’s the problem in that if we get any form of cd its going to be squeezed into the aw window. And when it doesn’t line up with aw we’ll whine about it,
the issue with modern zealotry “holy avenger” that is way to weak to be a 3min cd, unless they buff finishers to a more insane amount. so the best option if you want zealotry back, is turn it to a 1-2min cd
Don’t you guys remember having 6-7 Divine Purpose proc back to back almost every minute and multiple 2-3 procs back to back. It was deadly amount of rng, whenever we were hit by cc, or slow/root we gained a holy power, 6sec icd.
That’s what separated good ret vs bad ret. You had to use Zealotry+Badge in between wings to gush out damage. Wings on its own was good enough damage with how high HoW was hitting back in cata. Well for pvp at least.
Obviously, 2set T13 made it way more fluid, but the spec was still good nonetheless in S9 and S10.
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Nice. I like it!
What kind of abilities are Seals, Auras and Blessings?
They are support abilities. Without support abilities we are not WoW Paladins.
Ultimately I think seals are a mirage. You think holy power is this desert and that seals are an oasis, but the truth is that path leads to dehydration and death. Sorry to be so dramatic, but that’s the way I see it. It’s a bunch of extra binds and design space that can be filled by something better than swapping between Truth and Righteousness based on ST / AoE. It would take a really creative designer to do it right and chances are much higher that we get something not so great.
Sometimes I enjoy watching this TBC Ret stream his seal-twist shenanigans. But how many paladins would log in on the first day of Dragonflight and be glad to have a rotation that revolves around the swing-timer? And could the devs even recreate the jankiness that made seal-twisting work?
Then there’s Empowered Seals from WoD. It was a little janky as well but I did enjoy it as much as any other PvP Ret. The issue is just that though, that it was essentially a PvP talent, and you can’t add four entire abilities to the game for something so specific.
Or maybe some of us want the seal system back primarily for the flavor? I don’t like that approach at all. It will be auras all over again, a bunch of abilities that work best as passives but are not for some reason.
I don’t think holy power is perfect. Our current generators could use a stronger identity (there’s a lot to unpack here but screw it), I want Exorcism back, and Divine Storm should be more than AoE TV. But that’s all solvable, whereas reintroducing seals, or god forbid reintroducing seals and gutting holy power like some paladins want, would bring us back to square one again.
I’m tired of getting redesigned man. if you want flavor then bring back Exorcism and tweak the rest of our anti-evil kit. Bring back the original Divine Storm animation and have an aura animation that occasionally pulses beneath our feet (which can be modified or even removed via glyphs). Maybe the devs can find time to make a fun and challenging “warlock green fire” quest for paladins where the reward is an updated model of the human / dwarf / blood elf Charger, but let any paladin use it.
I could go on, but once again I’ve spent 45 min writing on the forums instead of actually playing the game. I just wanted to give another perspective on seals that I’m sure changed no one’s mind. I’m guessing if you want seals back you’re always going to want seals back.
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I have mentioned wanting seals a few times. But I agree the old versions of Vanilla-Wrath and MoP are not a good idea. Having to have extra binds or having to macro different seals would just bog down the spec imo.
I like the idea of Virtuous command, when we judge we get seal of command for a few seconds. It might possibly be the best win/win scenario.
The devs can add maybe a ST seal and a AoE seal to the talent tree. Maybe the current one we have and add some changes to make it more impactful than just pressing judgement and forgetting its there. The AoE one could be like the old Seal of Righteousness and just let us cleave and get some extra AoE since Divine storm is AoE capped at 5.
Same. Exorcism was really fun to press, especially against undead or demons with the 100% crit. It also probably wont happen, but making Divine storm like an old iteration where it heals a bit would be super flavorful.
I would LOVE a new/updated paladin mount. Having to use the order hall mount because it is the most updated holy horse + it can fly, is kinda lame.
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This x infinity. I recently logged on BC and played as a Paladin and HOLY is it ever the most terrible leveling experience. Seal Twisting is trash and not fun, especially when your Judgment is on an 8 second CD. Even in WoD it was not good, Empowered Seals was okay if you constantly had a target like in PVP or maybe a dungeon, but if you had to run out of raid mechanics and missed refresh it just felt like trash.
Honestly Ret just needs a few things to make it really great again, movement options, AOE DAMAGE, we need more cleave, Divine Hammer would be great thing to make a comeback. Cleaving inside of Consecration would also be huge, make it so that Consecration is actually worth using during AOE. Last thing would be some defensives options, Bubble is great but 5m CD makes it pretty much one use during most raid encounters and SoV is absolute trash tier, we have no damage reduction and it’s disgusting. Bring back Divine Protection at least.
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Do you have the legion mounts?
If you are casting anything not instant in pve you are playing wrong.
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Reading through some of the dev interviews I get the impression that there really will be no group buff for paladins…which really would be cynical.
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WoTLK probably was the best build of all classes overall. So anything in that direction is fine. Legion have builds but they came from your weapon and balanced pretty well so a combo of those two systems builds would be fun to me.
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The order hall mounts?
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Well, I took a look at the preliminary leaked paladin talents, and while none of what I saw was really that disheartening, I have to say: what I didn’t see was saddening.
Denounce.
If it doesn’t make a comeback, I’ll feel like the devs have failed me; having a ranged damage ability with no cooldown is so much more fun than not having one!
Of course, since there was only one spec’s talents listed, it’s too soon to panic. But I wanted to throw this out there earlier rather than later.
Say, your name looks really familiar; were you helping me get information for the Does Blizzard Really Hate Paladins series way back during TBC?
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Almost guaranteed paladins won’t get anything beyond devo aura. Certainly nothing that warrants bringing a ret specifically. The gap between the mobile and immobile classes is also getting larger with all the movement heavy evoker utility that they will almost certainly design encounters around to make them look cool.
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Yea, just watched some Evoker stuff on wowhead…the mobility of the class is disgusting. Already hate them. Same with Demonhunters.
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Looking at some of the Class talents datamined, these 2 are concerning in terms of design:
[Consecration in Flame]: Consecration lasts 1 sec longer and its damage is increased by 15%.
[Hallowed Ground]: Consecration’s damage is increased by 10%.
The first one… okay it’s “decent” but the second one is basically first one but nerfed.
Did they run out of ideas? Hopefully it’s just some darts that they were throwing and only the 1st one makes the cut.
But even then, Consecration dmg is so pitiful and if it stays the same in DF, then these talents are dog crap.
They seem to want to load it with stuff though… like:
[Golden Path]: Consecration heals you for (Attack power * .05 * 0.5) every 1 sec while standing within it.
Which is the conduit now in SL, the healing seemed very low so i never took it, but doesn’t seem good to me.
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Those buffs to Consecration for Ret barely do anything, brings it from 80 DPS to 90, literally need 50x or 100x modifiers to make Consecration any good, it’s a joke. For being static and a spell that has persisted throughout every expansion it just needs to do more.
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My consecration does 1214 damage right now. With the 10% and 15% buff it will do 1535 damage over 12s.
It will do one crusader strike worth of damage every 12s. At least its holy damage.
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