Well since it seems like enough time before stasis passed that the Weyrns were formed, leaders set up, and enough time had passed for them to practice their craft enough for some of them to reach Evoker status, it stands to reason (though we don’t know yet) that they could have learned of or even watched from a distance other peoples using weapons. And since we now know that Evokers are the best of what they do, we don’t know what the non-Evokers might use in a fight.
I think the thought is that Evokers are just top tier, rendering the other Dracthyr moot by comparison.
Like why we have Warlocks instead of petty Necrolytes.
Warriors instead of Fighters.
Rogues instead of Bandits.
Death Knights instead of Zombies.
Dracthyr - by design - strive to reach the Evoker level.
Why would any of them settle for mediocrity? And why would they make the mediocre an option?
1 Like
If only the people making up this new dragon lore for DF could just… change/add more new lore to explain things…
1 Like
Alternatively, they have a very specific vision and don’t want it diluted.
That being said, there is undeniably a desire for basic boring dragonmen. Therefore, they should get Drakonids playable. People can then be their beefy dragon tank with boobs or whatever they’re after, and Dracthyr don’t need to be contorted.
Sounds like that thing that always turns up in internet arguments!
It’s not ‘contorting’ the Dracthyr to have them capable to picking up more than one discipline. Draconic power isn’t perfect, and it has failed more often than not, especially when run up against mortal might. After all, Dracthyr are modeled with mortals in mind. It would actually be entirely natural for a Dracthyr to look at what mortals do and go ‘huh, maybe there’s something to that’.
Yep, I’m a member of a certain mid-century German political party because I think that dragons should make full use of their biology in combat.
Well if you say so, but I didn’t mention you at all.
Yep, you sure caught me. You win.
Here’s the thing - classes in WoW are incredibly restrictive. Maybe if subclasses were a thing, they could make this work. But WoW just isn’t built like that. The second that a Dracthyr picks up a weapon is the second they forget how to breath fire, cast spells, and fly. That is a lot harder to believe than a dragon neglecting to use weapons in favour of their natural gifts.
Druids seem to manage most of those things just fine.
Then decide what are Dracthyr ‘racials’ and scale them back to be in line with the other races, and then relegate the rest to Evoker. Maybe Soar is an expression of Evoker, but all Dracthyr have DH-style gliding.
There is a literal insurmountable problem with the Dracthyr in that none of their kind know how to take a hit, which is dumb on its face. If a Dracthyr wore armor though, they would find they don’t die as quickly.
To be clear, I do think that there are multiple other races that don’t pass this particular sniff test. Lightforged Draenei and Void Elves, for example, have very specific traits baked into their fantasy that are only capitalized on by a couple classes, at most. A racial doesn’t truly realize the fantasy of those races.
Personally, I think that racials should be expanded. But the impact of racials is something the developers seem to be minimizing.
I think that this is a little disingenuous. An Enhancement Shaman or Arms Warrior Windwalker Monk “knows how to take a hit.” That part of the fantasy just isn’t necessarily expressed mechanically. Would I like a tanking spec? Of course. But I do understand why they chose to emphasize other elements.
Which, again, is why I want Drakonids to fill this particular hole.
1 Like
People act like a new class is supposed to be the only played class for the first patch.
Ideally, less than 10% of players will want to main an Evoker.
“Limited raid slots” this isn’t 2004 where you will physically screech down voice comms if someone brings a second ret paladin.
You are looking at the Dracthyr as a ‘class’, I am looking at them as a ‘race’. I have no problems with the fact that ‘Evokers’ cannot tank. They are a ranged DPS/healer class. That is well and fine and good.
I take great umbrage with the fact that ‘Dracthyr’ cannot tank. A Pandaren Windwalker Monk will fold a hell of a lot faster than a Pandaren Protection Warrior.
EDIT: Plus, the class is dead in the water as far as expansion goes. Races can receive new classes, but this concept is doomed to maybe one or two new abilities per expansion if they don’t get outright forgotten.
And the developers are looking at them as both.
It’s like in early DnD when “Elf” was a class. Yes, it was incredibly restrictive. But it was the best realization of that very specific fantasy that has ever graced the tabletop, in my opinion.
They didn’t make a race and think, “What classes suit this?”
They made a race and thought, “How can we make a class that takes full advantage of this?”
And Evokers are the pinnacle of Dracthyr potential. And I wouldn’t mind if they are able to tank, as well - that tank spec would just need to tank as much advantage of the draconic fantasy as the other two specs do. Slapping a Warrior class on wouldn’t do that.
It’s not that they can’t - it’s that they don’t. Again, we keep ping ponging between lore and mechanics and the interaction between them. The mechanical expression of the full potential of the Dracthyr is a healing and DPS spec. But they could just as easily make a tanking spec, as well, and still fulfill that fantasy.
Having them forego their draconic nature and hits things with something sharp does not fulfill that fantasy.
But again… let’s get Drakonids in here to fulfill that boring dragonman fantasy with a wealth of playable classes.
Mechanically, yes. In the lore, though? Perhaps not.
1 Like
It made every Elf a carbon copy, and such design was rightfully tossed as early as 2e. Just like every Dwarf was a carbon copy.
Being a carbon copy of another character is boring and it’s not ‘brave design’, it’s ‘unimaginative’.
I can look at a dragon-person and think they’re a dragon-person without them necessarily having to breathe fire at me. And if they confess ‘oh I can’t breathe fire’ I don’t think ‘oh, well, fantasy ruined’, I think ‘oh, interesting, I wonder why not?’ Look at that? A story hook! A means to describe and individualize your character! Birth anomaly? Voluntary removal? Punished for dishonor? Who knows?
If the Dracthyr are an intelligent, individual people and not a hive-mind, some of them will look at the world around them and go ‘well I know Evokation is the bee’s knees and all but what that Warrior did was heckin’ cool and that Arcanist that summoned the boat made me go whoa so can I learn those instead?’
Again, slap the ‘draconic fantasy’ into the Evoker class. Not every Dracthyr needs to have the exact same capabilities. It’s boring. It’s unimaginative. It’s lazy. Again, Elves being their own class was because it was the first edition of D&D. Notice how they’ve never tried to go back to that format in every edition since; because it’s backwards and idiotic.
For those that pursue the path of Evoker, which will not be 100% of the race. At that point, you might as well be playing a pre-gen which isn’t ‘amazing and awesome’ it’s training wheels.
Ah yes, I too remember when I stopped thinking the dragon-person that struck me with a mace was a dragon-person because using a mace is so unbecoming of a dragon-person! Almost like they dislike their draconic side, or they have found more subtle or direct methods to be practical in situations than trying to breathe fire everywhere.
Or we could de-roboticize the Dracthyr and let them be individuals.
Mechanically, expansion-wise the Dracthyr are dead-on-arrival because this is another form of borrowed power, except this time it’s an entire borrowed race.
No they are not out of touch. Regardless if you believe there are tens of thousands of players or millions of players, the dev team knows that no matter what they do the people who love to hate the video games they play will complain.
How do you think it was when DKs, monks and DHs released lol? This is nothing new and unless you were smart and saved up millions of gold like I did you won’t be able to buy the best BoEs etc…to have your new class high in ilvl to stand out from the million other people playing the same class so you won’t even need to worry about pugging etc…and if you’re already in a guild then you should have a serious talk about who in the group will get the limited slots for the raid etc…or just make your own group.
1 Like
All that success in the game and instead of learning from it, they instead choose to repeat and escalate the mistakes.
Im hoping DF has more to it than the comment a while back about ‘day to day’ being like the ZM zone.
If it is, nothing else is going to save it for casuals.