but adaption toward an higher intelligence isn´t a unique trait, the evolution of men is a good example for this, every evolutionline we approached was in the end an increasement of intelligence.
Another similar case would be wales
Oh look, Zahir’s back to argue against something nobody said. Joy!!
Dafuq do the Welsh have to do with anything being discussed here?
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The original scenario, even if poorly written in the way it is described, is ultimately just an adaptation to a higher form of intelligence. Adaptation to higher levels of intelligence is evolutionarily a trait that does exist and is indeed a part of evolution that is quite standard, especially among mammals. With each successive stage of development, higher intelligence has been achieved, allowing for better adaptation to the environment because entirely new approaches become possible.
Humans, whales, and elephants are all prime examples of this observation.
15,000 years ago the Troll Empire went to Uldum and almost wiped themselves out creating a power vaccum. The troll tribes were Vulnerable and never recovered.
You make it sound like they were equally matched and not Azshara seeing an opportunity to take land that didn’t belong to her by force. Taking Drakkari and Amani land.
thats wrong, the trolls didn´t defeat themselve. Azshara took the trolls at full power …and defeated them.
I don’t think you are reading the same lore books as the rest of us Zahir. You always get the lore widly wrong.
The troll empire and the Mogu went to Uldum to the Forge of Origination and used it killing most of them and turning Uldum from a zungle to a desert. This one act changed the power of both the Mogu and the Troll empires. Weakening them.
The Amani and the Drakkari were mostly defeated by fighting eachother for land, not fighting the Kaldorei. The Kaldorei themselves were trolls. They were dark trolls.
That’s not how it’s worded in the book though. It’s implying that the trolls were always just dumb brutes and they needed a special well, plus a goddess to uplift them to give them Superior intellect as the book describes it
There’s really no way to justify it and no one should even try
A) The fall of Lei Shen was 16,000 years ago, and having 1,000 years to recover from this loss is more than enough time.
B) The trolls did not send their entire army because they distrusted Lei Shen.
You might want to read the lore correctly before attempting to correct others.
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It isn’t an adaptation, by its own description. It’s a magical transformation. There was no outside pressure, no environmental changes. They just drank magic water.
It is not evolution.
So funny thing here; we have no evidence whatsoever that whales evolved to be more intelligent. We know whales are intelligent, but we don’t know if their predecessor species was *less intelligent. For all we know, their predecessor species could have been Hawkings-level geniuses. All we know is that among some species, brain size increased while in others it decreased… But we also have begun to realize that intelligence is not measureable by brain size alone (look up avian intelligence for some more on that). You can toss elephants into that mix as well.
It is not accurate to say intelligence increased along evolutionary lines for any species other than humanity, because the only species whose predecessor species left evidence of their intelligence behind would be humans.
I’m going to assume when you previously mentioned Wales, you meant whales and not the country of Wales. Leave the Welsh out of this!!
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I’m literally sitting here with Chronicle Vol. 1 in my hands verbatim quoting the lore.
You are making things up to suit your headcanon you refuse to believe Night Elves evolved from Dark Trolls.
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Hey now, that’s unfair.
All they needed to be better than those ugly, dumb dark trolls was the Well.
The goddess decided to love them after they because smart and pretty and skinny and not so dark troll-ish anymore.
Makes me kinda sad with how ugly that phrasing from Khadgar is. Like, it’s just super ugly no matter how you look at it.
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It’s vaguely mentioned in a few sources. Notably the Troll Compendium which is dubious canon (as the Compendium was purged from the World of Warcraft website, but it wasn’t declared non-canon officially) and the quest ‘Darkest Night’.
The kaldorei started their rise to power by defeating the nearby troll tribes.[9] Against their enemies, the kaldorei used overwhelming military power, their armies supported by Elune’s blessings. The night elves’ greatest soldiers were bestowed the goddess’ fury through dangerous rituals, and these Night Warriors secured Kalimdor for the empire.[10]
And this is backed up by the maps of the Kaldorei Empire when compared to the previous maps of the Troll Empire. At its height, the Kaldorei Empire covered a lot of territory that once belonged to the various Troll empires.
The Chronicle also mentions conflict between the Trolls and the Night Elves.
The only other race which posed enough of a threat (albeit small) to draw the attention of the empire were the aggressive, and openly hostile, troll nations. Small, separate conflicts subsequently broke out between the two races, but the trolls were consistently unable to stand against the kaldorei mastery of the arcane and were routed as a result. Undisturbed by the trolls’ rabid battle lust, and having no desire to control their remaining lands, Queen Azshara ultimately negotiated a deal with the Zandalar tribe of trolls, the unifying force between all the tribes. In return for a halt to all troll incursions and hostilities against kaldorei territory, the trolls would — by Azshara’s grace — be allowed to remain in possession of their sacred Zandalar Mountain, south of the Well of Eternity. This humiliating agreement which the trolls had no choice but to acquiesce to led to great resentment of night elves (and elves in general) among the troll race.
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Right??
The most generous interpretation I can think of is that the dark trolls are the dumbest of all the trolls, and the Well “upgraded” night elves to be on-par with normal trolls, which… Is still a very ugly way to read it.
And even the most generous interpretation still makes Elune seem… Dirtier because of it. Because at the end of the day, she didn’t love these people until they became smart and pretty because of magic water.
It makes me IRL cringe thinking about it.
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It is important to remember that Cenarius clearly played a significant role in teaching the Yaungol to be druids potentially linking back to the concept of him being clearly highlighting the Wild Gods of Nature and his connection to that.
In addition to that a faction of the Yaungol who were with Cenarius and studying under him at the time were transformed by the Well of Eternity just like the trolls and while the trolls transformed into a new subspecies - Night Elves, the Yaungol transformed into the Tauren as their new subspecies.
Which potentially links Cenarius and the Wild Gods to being very much involved; ad even potentially in some part instigating the creation and appearance of both Taurens and Night Elves on Azeroth.
Yaungol Relevant Information that pertains to this:
Sometime between 12,200-12,000 years before the opening of the Dark Portal, the burly race known as the yaungol roamed central Kalimdor, living in peace with nature under the tutelage of the demigod Cenarius.
Eventually, however, the yaungol grew weary of having to share their hunting grounds with the nearby trolls, and, against Cenarius’ wishes, journeyed south in search of new territory. They soon reached the borders of the mogu empire. The Mogu emperor at the time, Qiang the Merciless, enslaved the yaungol and ordered his flesh-shapers to enhance the bovine race’s strength, savagery, and intelligence. For generations, the yaungol suffered under the mogu, until they joined the other slave races in a rebellion that succeeded in toppling the empire.
Though they had regained their freedom, much of the yaungol’s culture had been lost due to strict mogu laws forbidding them from preserving their oral storytelling traditions. Some of the yaungol clung to incomplete myths of the benevolent Cenarius, while others wished to abandon their past and forge a new destiny by force. The disagreements grew heated, and many yaungol left for the north with the intention of returning to a life of harmony with nature. The more nomadic tribes traveled across the entire continent, settling in the frozen lands near the Storm Peaks, where proximity to titan-forged machinery gradually transformed them into the taunka. Another group returned to the central areas of Kalimdor, where they reunited with Cenarius. Those who studied with Cenarius learned the druidic magic of the natural world, while others mastered the art of wielding shamanic powers. The energies of the Well of Eternity warped these central yaungol into a new subspecies, known as the tauren. The last group remained in the areas around the Vale of Eternal Blossoms, but due to repeated conflicts with the other liberated slave races, these yaungol decided to settle in the lands west of the Serpent’s Spine wall.
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It’s why I paid for a 3 character transfer. If the gilneas reclamation doesn’t go how I like it, I’m going horde full time.
Because I’m honestly tired of blizz layering one racist trope after another on alliance characters and alliance adjacent ones. Makes the entire faction look really ugly. And that’s without the faction partisans adding to it.
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So he’s quoting noncanon now defunct sources.
Great. Thank you.
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The thing is that Murlocs are actually pretty intelligent.
We just never get a good look at how they function beyond killing them.
But in the rare case we do get to speak with them on friendly terms, they’re just regular people.
In Northrend, we get to work with the Winterfin tribe. Once you’re able to speak and understand their language, they come off as intelligent as anyone else.
Jinyu aren’t more intelligent than Murlocs. They’re just taller.
I think this is a poor argument to make.
Chronicles was only framed as “Titan PoV” after the fact.
It was not written to be Titan PoV in the same way that the Dragonflight Codex is written in a PoV.
The reason Chronicles isn’t “censored” is because it was originally meant to be a comprehensive, objective guide to the lore.
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The conflict between the Night Elves and the Trolls might be actually something that is much more involved than what we first thought.
Firstly with the knowledge that the Ancient Guardians of Azeroth especially Cenarius were much more involved in instigating and shaping the transformation of the Trolls into the Night Elves. This may actually point to yet other celestial power struggle of some kind where once again races of Azeroth were being manipulated and used as pawns to fight on their behalf.
Essentially what I am alluding to here is that this might have been some kind of Celestial Power Struggle/Clash between the original nature celestials and Azeroth’s Ancient Guardians like Cenarius possibly with some other outside celestial influence. In essence this was a clash between the LOA worshipped by the Trolls against a faction of Azeroth’s Ancient Guardians who may have been influenced themselves by another celestial faction to create the Night Elves who would become the force they could use to weaken or take control of the LOA
All of this just makes me want to repeatedly say Q’onzu over and over again until I go the rest of the way insane, because I think you’re really on to something.
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