That’s not a casual PvP player. That’s a super casual PvE player.
I keep hearing there doing the gearing system like wod but then i hear its going be equalized isnt that like how was in legion??? Am i missing something?
Here.
https://imgur.com/a/TXre2iT
There are many solutions to this, and any solution is not going to be problem free. Personally, I like the WoD style. WoD may have sucked but for PvP it wasn’t too bad and if you remember playing at the time, all you had to do was just buy the honor set then the conq set and that was it. No artificial grinds to extent play time and upgrades. The scaling only applied to other players out in the world. I don’t think PvP’rs want the best gear in the game, they want PvP gear to be the best gear for any and all PvP scenarios (for many that includes WM).
This wouldn’t be a problem if we just had PvP servers again which basically accomplishes and does exactly what WM does. My question is as a PvP’r why would you ever turn WM on with this change? Seems like a whole lot of work for little return. Why go through the ringer with rated (unless you want a few cosmetics) when you can turn the button off and becomes a non-issue.
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Where are said tweets you’re mentioning? Can you show them, please?
Numbers I’m getting that say otherwise? What numbers? Please, show me what numbers I provided.
Not him, but I literally linked you the tweets, you can look them up. Another one - https://postlmg.cc/YvCkdJTz
“In the US and EU, the number of people doing random battlegrounds is as high or more than LFR.”
“likewise as many people do 2s as normal raiding. As many do 3s as heroic raiding. Not a niche.”
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Interesting stuff. I wonder why they would steer away from that model then. Makes no sense. Makes sense that they’d be turning back to it to increase the number of subs agian though.
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That is exactly how DF gearing works too.
It would have taken you less time to read about DF gearing and watch the interviews, than to write that wall of text.
And why they would double down on it patch after patch, expansion after expansion.
I am just thankful they finally listened to the deafening outcry after all these years.
the vast majority who want to keep the current pvp are PvE players, junk collectors and rush payers and there are even pseudo pvp players who can only win thanks to the gear advantage, a scenario in which competitive or outside it scares these players .
for you scared with a really more competitive pvp, you will always have the option to turn off the warmode, or turn it on and get the new wpvp gear, easy to acquire for PvE players, or not participate in the competitive and go back to the M+ and Raids that they love .
Let the casuals have their chance to play the game peacefully as it doesn’t interfere with the game of really competitive and capable players…
Or those who just don’t World PvP to become a zergfest.
I love that PvP gear is equalized in instanced PvP, and I hope it’s not equalized in WPvP. Gear balances out being outnumbered in WPvP. If I have 2100 gear and being attacked by 2 or 3 honor geared players, I can beat them. I won’t have to rely on getting more players to fight against them.
Its a good system and i dont get how people can think otherwise?
I only PvP, but even I can see how unfair it would be if PvP geared scaled up in war mode. PvP gear will be so easy to get…literally can obtain it by just doing random bgs amd weekly pvp quests each week. Would be ridiculous if that was the best possible gear when fighting in wpvp, even better than PvE players in mythic gear who had to work hard for it and high ranked arena players who are in the top brackets of skill.
Theres not actually that many players that cam obtain myrhic raid gear.
If youre a player that sits around 1800 or under in rated pvp, you shouldnt have the best gear possible in all formats. But even at that ilvl, you should be fine in Wpvp given theres so many factors that can be in your favour.
Eg being better at pvp than a pve player immediately gives an advantage, can use gear and talents suited for pvp while they probably arent, use items like damage potions, pvp players are more likely to gank and initiate combat, outnumber opposition and run around as a group.
For starters PvP gear is meant for PvP, WM or not. I don’t think it’s too ridiculous to say that. Also, warmode is optional, and if it’s so easy to get conquest then people who do mythic raids should be easily able to get a conquest set if they want to PvP. Then you might say “well we don’t want to force PvE’rs to do PvP content they dont want to do”. I don’t go into a mythic plus dungeon or a raid and complain that people who have the appropriate gear for the content are performing better than me.
Blizzard could do multiple things to make both player’s worries alleviated. A true WoD style system where your PvP ilvl only takes effect in PvP combat. You could have a currency threshold by which you need “X” amount of conquest in the season for your PvP gear to work in WM. Another thing that could potentially be done is increase mob scaling (in WM) assuming they revert the change and have PvP gear scale in WM. That way the differences in world content efficiencies could be appropriately mitigated.
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This right here is very hypocritical. You’re telling PvE’ers, “lol just get a set of PvP gear” but when asked to just do rated PvP and upgrade your gear like the rest of us, its suddenly, “no, don’t ask us to do something we don’t want to do!”
Except with the upgrade system, they won’t be performing better than you.
PvPers get to upgrade their gear through rated PvP to be useful in PvE. If you’re 1800, you can upgrade your gear damn near to the equivalent of heroic gear. 1950 is a bit higher than that, 2100 is reaching mythic ilvl.
Where can PvE’ers upgrade their PvP ilvl? Oh wait, they can’t. Their gear only has one ilvl, which is just base ilvl.
Gear should be gear and should be usable anywhere, it should be viable in all forms of content.
That’d be fine so long as they removed a lot of acquisition routes for Conquest Points. They’d have to limit obtaining Conquest Points from only Arena (Solo, 2v2, 3v3), Rated Battlegrounds, and the 1 daily win from Random BGs.
There’s so many other avenues to obtain conquest points in retail wow such as the AOO quests, WM bounty, weekly battleground or skirmish quests, etc. Otherwise, it’d defeat the purpose of even putting this restriction in place if you can get conquest easily.
I’ll say it again, but at that point, it really does become a game of who has the most players. Everyone is scaled to mythic ilvl, everyone is doing insane burst damage in this already one shot meta that PvP is in, and now all you need to do is be apart of a mega community for easy recruitment in WPvP and call on your community chat to phase everyone in whenever you can’t win in a 1v1 and being camped.
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I’ll rephrase it. All it comes down to really preferences to gear systems. I said, “if it’s so easy to get conquest then people who do mythic raids should be easily able to get a conquest set if they want to PvP.” This is in the context of acquiring vanilla conquest gear. People who mythic raid are the hardcore players of this game I don’t think it’s completely unreasonable for people who are at the top echelons of play to do some random bgs pending they want conquest gear to PvP in. They are crossing over into another sphere of content in the game. PvE into PvP, collaboration vs competition. They should have to do the same things and participate in the systems that PvP’rs do, should they want that level of power in PvP. All gear should be viable in all content to some extent but not “optimal”.
I am telling PvE’rs to get a set because they are coming into the PvP domain space. Complaining about rating requirements is different as that’s a system which has multiple faults and it’s against the spirit of competitiveness. Apples to oranges. I am not telling a mythic raider to do anything that a casual PvP’r wouldn’t do.
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People who do mythic raids wouldn’t need to do PvP. If gear scales in open world, its essentially equivalent to mythic ilvl. They’re already on par. When I say PvE’ers, I’m not talking about the top 2% of players who do mythic raiding. I’m talking about casual PvE’ers who may want to dabble in PvP, or people who do normal or heroic raiding or low level keys.
They already need to if they want to do any form of instanced PvP. They have to get a set of PvP gear before they can truly compete in instanced PvP.
Us PvP’ers don’t need to do that though. Wanna know what we can do if we want to participate in any of their content? We can do what we like to do, which is PvP, and upgrade our gear through rated PvP and can then bring that gear that we hand picked from the vendor and upgraded into their content. Can they do that? No, not unless they do mythic raiding, which let me tell you, the majority of players dont do.
If you’re curious to how many players actually do high end PvE content here’s the breakdown:
Sepulcher of the First Ones (Worldwide) - Mythic Raid Rankings
The above link shows how many guilds worldwide even touch mythic raiding. Only 4,512 guilds have touched mythic raiding worldwide. Break it down by Americas, and only 1,531 guilds in the Americas touch mythic raiding.
Cutting Edge: The Jailer - Achievement
And then this link shows how many players have actually cleared the whole raid and have defeated mythic Jailer for the latest raid, Sepulcher of the First Ones. Only 2% of players have actually done this.
As said above, we can bring our gear into a PvE domain space. Why can’t they bring their gear into a PvP domain space? Why can’t they bring their gear into the lowest form of PvP which is War Mode?
Not really trying to talk about a high end PvE’er, I’m only talking about the average PvE’er who does LFR / Normal / Heroic raids or low mythic plus keys.
I’d argue normal or heroic raiding is way more difficult than the average random battleground, yet PvE’ers are just supposed to bow down and take it to the casual PvP’er in War Mode just because… it’s PvP gear?
If they don’t want to do the bare minimum a casual PVP’r does than yes. Mythic raider or below… You would always have the option to turn WM off. Sure, heroic raiding is more difficult than random bgs no argument to be made there, but you actively make a decision to go into a PvP space when opting in to Warmode. Surely it would logically make sense that in a PvP space, one by which you entered by your own accord, that PvP gear would be the most optimal gear for that setting. You wouldn’t complain about PvE gear being inferior in BGs (pressing a queue button for PvP) so why would you complain about it being inferior in Warmode (pressing a button for PVP).
They can. It just shouldn’t be more optimal than PvP gear. I think when it comes to this either we both can bring our gear into different settings, or nobody can. Even if you bring your upgraded PvP gear into a raid, your gear is covered in versatility. Which isn’t as useful for PvE as it is PvP.
That’s because instanced PvP is the grounds for gearing. Everyone at some point will have no PvP gear entering a battleground, whether that be fresh alts or PvE’ers joining a battleground to farm for honor.
Sure some people may do battlegrounds for fun, but for the most part people are doing it because they get Honor currency (and a small amount of Conquest currency) to buy their gear.
In War Mode, it’s not primarily a ground for obtaining gear. This is a part of the game that’s pretty damn chaotic. It’s chaotic PvP that gives you an advantage in many ways like OP world buffs, OP items that you can use here that you normally can’t in instanced PvP, terrain, numbers advantage, etc.
It seems weird to leave gear out of the equation. Gear should be gear, if I want to participate in a fun chaotic environment like War Mode that has no real objective other than just killing a player and living as long as I can (if I had a bounty), there shouldn’t be a barrier to entry such as PvP gear. This should be the grounds to show off what you’ve earned, regardless of whether you got it from PvP or PvE.
And adding into that again, because you can easily have a numbers advantage by just inviting and phasing over as many players as you want into your shard, gear is the only thing that can balance that power difference out. Gear helps being outnumbered.
They can’t though, because if every casual PvPer can easily obtain conquest gear (which is scaled to mythic ilvl) then PvE’ers literally can’t bring their gear into any form of PvP because they’ll be facing mythic geared players. Any average PvE’er who does LFR / Normal / Heroic will be stomped by anyone in Conquest gear.
You’re pretty much saying that only the top 2% (under 1% in the Americas region) of PvE’ers are the only ones who can bring their gear into PvP.
Using your previous quote I provided, the reverse is true for PvE. Their gear won’t be more optimal than PvP gear because our gear is covered in Versatility, it’s found on every piece of our gear where as it’s not found on every piece of PvE gear.
But gear should still be gear even if there’s the slight difference in our gear like stats, it still balances out to a degree.
My “wall of text” was arguing in favor of gearing mattering, and without using appeal to popularity. In case you want to ever read it, it’s probably gonna still be there.
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I read enough…
And, as I said in the post you replied to me: DF gearing will still work as it does in SL with WM on. Your PVE ilvl will operate exactly like it does now on PVP gear in SL. Only the PVP ilvl is changing in DF:
Simplified SL Example:
| Rank | PVE ilvl | PVP ilvl |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | 249 | 262 |
| 2 | 252 | 265 |
| 3 | 255 | 268 |
| … | … | … |
| 9 | 275 | 285 |
Simplified DF Example:
| Rank | PVE ilvl | PVP ilvl |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | 249 | 285 |
| 2 | 252 | 285 |
| 3 | 255 | 285 |
| … | … | … |
| 9 | 275 | 285 |
Without this simple change (which should have been implemented already), SL PVP gearing is actually the worst system that WoW has ever had for PVP gear.
And if you can believe it, it was worse than BfA, which was worse than Legion which was the worst up until that point. So, to me, every expansion since WoD (the best by far) was the worst PVP gear system the game had ever had. For 3 expansions in a row.
The craziest part? Everyone knew it even before each of these expansions launched. Thousands upon thousands of posts, year after year calling for WoD gearing back.
DF PvP gearing is going to really turn things around for PVP. There is absolutely no way numbers will continue to go down as you suggest.
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