so you wanna go back to the awful model we have currently in SL? completely unfun pvp for casuals? mate this new system will be fun as hell and also i wouldn’t recommend trying to get people to socialize as most people play video games to get away from socializing (not to mention most of the player base is toxic)
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It would be more correct to say that it tends towards the equalization of gear in the long-term, and not that it equalizes gear, outright. In truth, there would be a fair (but reasonable) amount of inequality and gear discrepancy to begin with when people are gearing up. I mean, just think about all of the various combinations of gear qualities, gear iLvls, and gear types you would come across out in the open world.
That’s simply not true. Gear isn’t the only factor. WPVP is a bit more complex than that. At any rate, getting jumped by groups in WPVP - something which is bound to happen from time to time, mind you - isn’t a good reason to maintain unnecessary gear discrepancies.
It’s unfair to expect that people would be prepared for WPVP when they turn WM on - especially given that the PVP gear is easily acquired and doesn’t upgrade?
The problem with this line of reasoning is that you’re treating PVE gear and PVE gear progression as being similar to PVP gear and PVP gear progression. You can’t compare them in a 1:1 fashion.
For instance, though it is going to be (relatively) easy to acquire baseline PVP gear, it’s not necessarily going to be as easy to upgrade the PVE iLvl - especially for players that don’t typically participate in rated PVP content. The argument that it’s unfair that PVP players can (potentially) use their PVP gear in PVE content isn’t quite true, seeing as:
- Most PVP players will never see PVE iLvl upgrades beyond the 1400 bracket, seeing as the majority are not good; also, many PVP players don’t like rated PVP.
- It will be easier to get equivalent or better PVE gear from PVE content.
- There really isn’t anything stopping PVE players from participating in PVP, outside of just being lazy and not grinding out their welfare sets that scale to max iLvl in PVP. As per WPVP… well, they shouldn’t be expecting to have the advantage - especially when WM is a toggle. Turn it off or get some PVP gear. This is an entirely reasonable request, given that we have a WM toggle.
Most PVP players are fine with the rating gated PVE iLvl upgrading, myself included - insofar as it’s strictly for PVE content. It gives us something to look forward to while bumping up our rating, but it’s not overly punishing if we can’t make it for whatever reasons (i.e.: lack of skill, unable to play regularly, etc.)
This is where the problem starts. Currently, WM on is treated as PVP content: PVP iLvl scaling and set bonuses work in WM. That’s all changing in DF. For some reason, they’re doing a complete 180 on WM. Their reasons are rather weak, and the problems could easily be addressed by introducing true WoD-style PVP iLvl scaling, but they won’t do it because they want to make money off of their rating gates; also, they want to pander to the elitist attitudes of the PVE community who think that, by virtue of their participating in M+ and/or raids, and smacking at glorified loot piñatas, they should get to roll everyone else. Every time PVP players get something, they cry. It’s been the same old song and dance for years.
While I get the concern people have with PVP iLvl scaling affecting the speed of activity completion, this is entirely the devs fault. It’s a design issue. If PVP gear functioned like it did in WoD, we wouldn’t have any issues.
Again… you’re comparing apples and oranges. Part of the problem is that PVE gear and PVE gear progression is part of a cooperative game mode. It’s not quite the same thing to have PVP players (potentially) upgrading their PVE iLvl so they can actually contribute to a cooperative goal as it is to let PVE players just go around rolling people in WM. Stop treating it like it’s 1:1. It’s not.
Again… you can’t compare them like this.
Currently, the PVE iLvl caps at 2400.
Well, the rating gates would be fine, IMO, insofar as it affected PVE iLvl in strictly PVE content (i.e.: dungeons, raids and WM off). WM on has always been considered as the PVP variation of world content, while WM off has always been considered the PVE variation of world content. I mean, PVP scaling and set bonuses work in WM right now - and it makes sense. WM on is a PVP mode.
I get the argument concerning completion speed, but this wouldn’t even be a problem if we had received proper WoD-style PVP gear, which only scales up into enemy players. That would force PVP players to either get rating or get PVE gear for world content… which would be fine, because it doesn’t actually affect PVP.
The reason people are upset about the proposed change is because it makes no sense. PVP gear should be BiS for PVP content… and WPVP is PVP content! You don’t want us to kill rares super quick? Fine - keep the rating gated PVE iLvl upgrades and bring back proper WoD-style PVP gear that only scales up into enemy players! It’s really not a hard fix. They’re so close. DF PVP is already looking good, but imagine how good it could be!
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Not really. PvP gear progression is pretty linear, especially at the beginning of an expansion. You level a character, you all get the same gear from quests while leveling up. Maybe you get lucky here and there and find a BoE. Once at max level, everyone will roughly be around the same ilvl and you can grind battlegrounds.
They get some honor, buy some base honor gear which is scaled to the highest of its bracket, and you continue from there. It doesn’t take long to get a full set of honor gear, and if its scaling to its PvP ilvl, which you no longer have to upgrade because its max already, everyone is pretty much equalized in gear. It won’t matter what other gear types you come across in open world if PvP gear uses its PvP ilvl in War Mode because the ilvl is higher than what will be available.
Gear is the only factor that will help this scenario. I’m not talking about ways to escape, I’m not talking about how long you can survive until help potentially shows up or some random OP world buffs; I’m talking about a way to win. In a 3v1 scenario, the only thing that would help you would be gear, assuming you out gear them.
Take a look at Wintergrasp in Wrath Classic - underdogs receive a buff called Tenacity that increases damage, healing, and health by a percentage based off of how outnumbered they are. Gear discrepancy, in open world, pretty much accomplishes the same thing Tenacity did, just to a lesser degree.
That’s the issue though, if players aren’t participating in rated PvP content, they can’t blame anyone but themselves for not doing the content necessary to upgrade their ilvl further. I’m not trying to compare PvE gear progression and PvP gear progression in a 1:1 fashion, but when you say things like:
It simply isn’t true. You’re acting as if the majority of the PvE player population does mythic 15s like its some sort of cake walk or people doing heroic or mythic raiding is significantly easier than doing rated PvP. It’s about the same amount of effort and skill needed to do keys and to get rating.
No PvE’er is expecting to have an advantage, they just expect to be viable. Trust me, I rarely see decked out PvE players in War Mode. I only see decked out PvP players in War Mode. Even when the change is ultimately made for gear to not scale in War Mode, PvP players will still have the advantage.
Let me stop you there and say War Mode is not PvP content. The majority of time spent in War Mode is doing PvE activities. Turning on War Mode is simply saying, “I accept the risk to be attacked by players and vice versa.”
Fighting a player in War Mode is PvP content; simply being in War Mode doing PvE activities in a dead shard or sitting AFK in Stormwind or Orgrimmar is not PvP content.
I really despise this sort of mindset. Why are people trying to turn this into PvP’ers vs PvE’ers? Why is this even an argument? Gear should just be gear. No one who does PvE expects to be able to roll everyone else. That’s not the argument trying to be made at all. Stop trying to put a barrier to entry on the already small and dying PvP playerbase.
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No…you blame the company for trying to force players to do something that nobody wants to do.
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If you don’t want to do it, then don’t do it. No ones forcing you to do anything, you just won’t have good gear in War Mode.
You forget that this is an MMORPG with character progression. If you want good gear, you need to do content that will reward you with gear appropriate to that difficulty. I think it’s fine that instanced PvP gear will scale you up to a high ilvl - that makes sense, but you can’t expect to have mythic quality ilvl outside of that with little to no effort. It really doesn’t take much effort to get honor gear or even conquest gear.
LOL. So rich kids can be boosted to get high end gear just to go in a random to smash their keyboard across their face and win because of a high ilvl? Equalize gear and bring skill to the game. GJ Blizz
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No one wants that though and that’s the problem, lol. Warmode/wpvp is already dead and this silly rating locked pve upgrade thing will do nothing to incentive players to give it another go.
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Gear discrepancy isnt the problem in War Mode, I’ve made two threads already detailing the major issues of War Mode and this is not one of them lol.
And those are your opinions, but curiously you always seem to be in the minority.
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Forums aren’t the majority. Most players don’t even use the forums, hence half the reason Blizzard integrated Twitter functionality in World of Warcraft.
It absolutely will help pvp…
All I see is “I don’t ever want to face anyone with 2% more stats than me” posts. I don’t see a single argument. This might sound confrontational, but I’m just saying it straight. Nobody addressed ANYTHING I said. I wonder if people even read the post whatsoever.
Also: this won’t stop boosters whatsoever.
I’m curious to see if it’ll destroy participation in unrated PVP. And I don’t think that it really matters to try to bring in the casual PVP player that plays 2 BGs a month, or 5 arena matches in 2 weeks. Hopefully I’m wrong on everything.
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We already know how good it is, we had the same gearing at the end of MoP and for the entirety of WoD.
More people play more PVP.
You’ll have to explain this. Granted a few may want to get boosted for a title or xmog, but that will pale in comparison to the amount of boosting for ilvl upgrades we saw all SL. Boosting will dwindle to almost nothing in PVP, you’ll see
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Yall know crates are back, right? Wpvp is back on the menu come DF! My friends and I are awfully excited! 
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Idk i play rpgs so i can have the biggest sword and do the biggest damage,
Everything perfectly balanced sounds awfully boring, no wonder not a single popular game worries about balancing as much as arena wow pvpers do lol.
Wod was soo good it almost killed the franchise btw.
Ok, but where are you getting these numbers? That “more people” played “more PVP” in WoD?
from nowhere.
people quit wod in droves and those who stayed just did random stuff around because it had no content.
Actual tweets from blizzard during that time saying as many people participate in PVP as PVE. That PVP was not niche.
Where are you getting these numbers that say otherwise?
DF PvP will be far more popular than it was the last 3 expansions. You’ll see.
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Weapons and usually trinkets. Now not so much trinkets, but weapons. More specifically the legendary weapons.
People would be insane to not use PvP trinkets in Dragonflight, now that we have the trinket set bonus.
As for legendary weapons, I feel that is such an extreme outlier. We don’t really get legendary weapons that often, and when we do, they are an extremely low drop chance. Not many people even have the legendary Sylvanas bow. It’s hardly a problem because not many people have it and those who do have it are hardcore PvE’ers who don’t PvP.