I agree, but that’s not the argument I was responding to. The argument was that the Dev’s don’t want to try and balance another tank spec around another instance interaction, not that players are demanding something that isn’t in the game.
We can assume we will be getting all new instanced content and designing how classes interact with those mechanics is literally the job the Dev’s signed up to do.
I’ve actually moved a little on this too, feeling less attached to Evoker getting a Melee/tank speck, toward Dracthyr getting more class options. At the very least, I think we should be able to start the expansion with some basic classes: Warrior, Hunter, Mage, and Priest… Maybe even an argument for Rogue, Shaman, and DK.
In most of these cases we can assume some of that is coming. We saw all the allied races opened up to DK along with Panda’s, and Brian Holinka said they are working on opening up all races to all classes in the further.
By the way, he used the catch phrase “we want you to be able to play how you want to play.” In that interview.
But you don’t think it’s risky taking one of the biggest features of the expansion and turning off potentially a sizable portion of the player base?
I just wonder what the meeting looked like when they decided to bring a playable dragon race to the game, but then decide to limit it to 1 class.
Hmm, I wonder if there is another mechanic that could be used, Like a build up to a burst window like DK’s have with a certain Breath mechanic. But that is of course if we are talking about Evoker only. Dracthry probably should have access to other classes, like Warrior….
Maybe I’m misunderstanding you but this is literally my argument. What I’m saying is that the 2H option wasn’t the issue, WF RNG was. And the wierd burst results that came from the reworks.
Do you think that the Dev’s couldn’t figure out a way to bring 2H gameplay back to enhance shamans without relying on WF. Currently the meta build focus more on stormstrike proc’s lowering the CD of spirit wolves. While WF still provides a nice amount of uncapped AOE… it’s no longer our strongest build.
Imagine if blizzard redesigned Rock breaker or flame tongue to work with 2H option. With the FS spread back that could lead to some very interesting gameplay…. Don’t you think in 2 decades of lessons learned, Blizzard might know how to make 2H play style fun (Paladin, Arms warrior, Survival hunter, Frost and Unholy DK.) Hmmm…
that’s a good question. you also gotta wonder what it was like when they decided to make them skinny and noodle-like, before making muscled-up warrior-y dragon npcs that are’nt playable.
d’you think one of the devs went ‘i’m sorry, we’re making these guys all thin. but the ones the players don’t get to play as, big and beefy? the heck? how big of a playerbase do you think we have for noodle-y mage-dragons??’ or something to that effect.
you gotta wonder if the devs realize some folks want to play tough-guy dragons instead of a hiding-behind-some-mortal-throwing-spells dragon.
i mean… the idea of playing as a dragon, a scaley, fire-breathing, winged-lizard that’s one of the classic impressive fantasy monsters is cool. but like… playing one that just sits there throwin magic? it feels like they missed the memo about why dragons are awesome…
They are continuing to remove options. Adding a bit more customization doesn’t change the fact that there have been lots of changes intended to force people to play in a lockstep manner.
They still think we’re playing the game wrong. They will continue to remove options until players have no choice but to play right. They’re tired of people who log in and decide to do whatever, rather than going through their assigned checklist to complete all the chores, and then hammering away at elite content even if they don’t like it.
So a race that literally only just emerged after 10,000+ years of hibernation only knows how to fight a certain way (Evoker) and needs to train to learn how to do things other classes before they can learn how to be those classes feels suspect to you?
That’s about as reasonable as one can honestly expect.
In the real world, a person can’t just pick up a weapon and become a professional soldier. That takes time, you need to learn how to use the weapon, learn discipline, learn how to take orders from superiors etc. Years are spent before you can be considered competent enough to serve in any official capacity. And that goes for every other profession too. Doctor, Teacher, Politician, you need years of training to be capable of doing those things.
So if we don’t get other classes available to the Dracthyr until 11.0 that honestly makes perfect sense, lore-wise.
No, that’s literally not true. It’s fantasy lore and would be really easy to add a narrative that could work. After all, aren’t these Dracthyr supposed to have characteristics of the races of Azeroth that existed at the time? Neltharion would have been aware of Tyr and the titan-forged.
Also, Dev’s have said in interviews that they were made to be elite guardians and a formidable fighting force. Are we to believe that Neltharion didn’t understand the importance of diversified forces. Considering he had to join forces with a Keeper (Tyr) and the other aspects (all who had different strengths) to defeat Galakrond.
I would say the Lore probably defends my take more.
However, when I say suspect, I mean it feels more like a sales gimmick to try and create an illusion of new content in future patches. At best, they can do a patch within this expansion opening up the Dracthyr to new classes and claim this was new content they’d planned on all along. At worse, it could be a shady money grab forcing players to pay for the next expansion if they want to play the “Dragon race” as anything other than the narrow parameters set in this expansion.
This is exactly in the context that Brian Holinka was referring too. Playing any class you wanted without being limited by race.
I wonder what that Dracthyr have been doing for the past 15,000 years… I don’t imagine they could have been building a society or training for anything in that timeframe. I mean, if I wanted to be a lazy lore writer, I suppose I could just say hibernating…. It wouldn’t be the first time Blizzard used that. But then it feels even more like the Dracthyr are more of a sales gimmick, than a well thought out, carefully crafted playable race in a long running beloved MMORPG franchise.
BOS literally is not a channeling or cast time ability. It’s a passive that drains RP and deals damage each time it drains RP. It’s wholly different from the literally image of a dragon building up it’s Fire Breath.
Spell Visuals are extremely important. BOS is not a “dragon breath”. The only reason you picked BOS was because it had “Breath” in it. Lol.
When I am literally playing a dragon-themed class, if my Fire Breath attack doesn’t have a build-up then it’s a fantasy miss.
Godzilla charges up his nuclear breath. How less awesome could it be if there was no visual sell to the “Charging up” period. If you think this isn’t important enough to be considered a critical element of dragons, then you’re simply wrong.
BOS, when used correctly behaves exactly like your saying… you build up Runic Power, then release it in a continuous cone…. Obviously it’s not exactly the same as what you’re saying, but I imagine the creative people at Blizzard and you can see how it could be implemented.
Sindragosa is literally a reference to a dead dragon and the ability is designed to mimic a frost dragon’s breath. Knowing your lore is extremely important.
Creating a melee/tank class doesn’t hinder this in any way. I bet Blizzard could design a breath attack that you begin to channel and immediately you gain defense, and then you can release it for channeled damage. Isn’t there a class that already has a fire breath channel as a tank/melee… hmmm
And you don’t think not including a melee/tank option is a big fantasy miss?
I don’t think anyone is saying this at all. Do you not think it’s possible to have a defensive build up animation/ability that rotates into a fire breath release ability?
Tank shortage that’s getting even worse…so lets just add in a new hero class that is going to be super popular… and cant tank even though it should because I have never heard of a dragon that cant soak up damage.
It’s well established at this point that adding tank specs to the game does not increase the number of people willing to tank for pugs.
And 5-man pugs are the only place where there’s a “tank shortage” at all. Everywhere else, there’s actually a tank glut. Try getting onto a raid team as a tank.
All it does is spread tank design more thinly. They’re already robbing peter to pay paul, when it comes to tank design. It’s been that way since Monks were added, in fact.
Again, it’s not not the same. We have cast times in this game to roleplay the act of “charging up a spell.” Dragon fantasy includes this too.
BOS “used correctly” is pooling, not a windup. Again, it’s wholly different.
If you exhale IRL without taking a breath first, you’re gotta have a puny exhale. But if you take a deep breath, your exhale could be very powerful. But it takes a bit of time for that deep breath to really fill your lungs. And a ton of things happen while you’re doing that. Your diaphragm expands, you head might lift, your back may arch, etc. There’s motion that occurs which does not happen when you take normal, short breaths.
That’s why I’m drilling down that need for a windup period. It’s so important to how the spell feels.
BOS uses “Sindragosa” in name, but you can rename to “Breath of the Frostwyrm” and suddenly nothing changes. “Sindagrosa” is irrelevant. It’s no different from spells like “Ysera’s Gift.”
Can it happen? Sure, I can imagine ways. But does it translate to a good gameplay experience? Nope. Channeled spells or Cast Times on melee just do not translate to an enjoyable gameplay experience.
evoker not having a tank spec is totally understandable, it just doesn’t fit with the class’s playstyle, this is pretty evident looking at the current gameplay of the class.
dracthyr not be other races, especially with the player being able to choose to fight between dragon form or visage doesn’t make much sense, I hope it doesn’t take long until they add new classes for this race.
At this point I am fine with Evoker being tied to their two specs. However, I can’t forgive them adding a whole race that straight up can’t perform one of the holy trinity’s role. That’s a MMORPG sin.
