DPS self heals

Yes this is what I’ve been saying since the start.

Pure dps used to have insane defensive CDs to make up for not having self heals. Now they have self heals and those amazing defensive CDs so they live forever.

The hybrid tax is our defensives are garbage in comparison. Let’s compare icebound fortitude with sham rage shall we? We better not because they aren’t even on the same level.

Pure dps used to have a tax but now they don’t whole hybrids still suffer theirs.

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I mean, Disc or Shadow Priest, Pallies, Druids with Guardian Affinity who can live forever, and sometimes even Shaman, I call bullsh*t on them “always losing” to pure dps. A Paladin not only has some of the best burst in melee PvP, but they also effectively have two health pools and a 6 second immunity to all damage. And you want me to give up a 30% heal every 30 seconds that USES RESOURCES?

All I can say is if you can’t handle the class, reroll or get good. No one forced you to play hybrid classes.

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As a hybrid class, maybe you’re mistaking your role. You think that as a hybrid class, your self heals are what’s important. Hybrid classes were never meant to be superior at any roll what-so-ever. You are an “off heals” for your team. You can dps and throw heals on teammates. That is your role. Self-sustainability is not what you’re designed for. I also want to say that good players make it work all the time. If this is about solo… Blizzard doesn’t balance PvP around 1v1. Get over it.

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It isn’t about hybrids vs pure DPS, it’s about some classes under-performing. Both feral and balance druid put out very strong damage.

The only DPS classes that I haven’t really played much in PvP are shadowpriest and elem shaman.

All of the DPS classes that I have played (hybrid and pure) feel in the same ballpark in terms of viability to me except for the enhancement shaman which has issues going beyond just damage, IMO.

edit: Oh, and arms warrior which I haven’t even bothered to play due to the lack of a self-heal.

If you remove self-heals from pure DPS then there is zero reason to play pure DPS over a hybrid for solo queuing BGs.

I don’t mind Ele damage , it’s pretty strong . But I feel I am at a significant disadvantage when I need to heal because I have only one defensive on a 1.5 min CD and I get about 3-4 healing surges before I go OOM which heals me to about a third of my health pool ( without crits) . Now compare this with DPS classes which have defenses on lower CD’s and can heal while doing damage or have a bunch of absorbs/shields ( Mages ).

Atleast reduce the mana costs so that I can heal to full…Enh has the same issues with the added disadvantage that as melee they are right in the middle of the fire and they don’t have Lasso or Frost shock which can be used to get a bit of a breather unlike Ele.

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I don’t think it’s a bad thing for pure DPS to have some healing and absorbs (which shows up as healing on the scoreboard) but like anything in the game that can be overtuned. Mage absorb is a problem on top of what they already have.

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Which would be fine if TTK was low, but it isn’t. Do you have any idea how weak rogues are once their insane defensives are gone? If fights last much longer than those insane defensives last (which they do ATM) then rogue has to run or die if they have no access to a self-heal.

So, if you want to have pure DPS with no self-healing then we need to go back to a game where TTK is very short (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing).

It’s a lot more complex than just hybrid versus pure DPS.

This is actually more about a slow-paced game versus a fast-paced game. In a fast-paced game pure DPS wouldn’t need self heals. In a slow-paced game, they do.

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Pally doesn’t need to be on top of their target to heal. I kill DKs by kiting them so they can’t heal and using something like evasion or CC to prevent healing if they are on top of me.

Kiting and evasion don’t prevent a paladin from healing. In fact, kiting a paladin allows them to get heals off.

There are advantages and disadvantages that go both ways.

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I myself have already broken down how this isn’t even true. If it cost combo points then it would be. 30 energy, with your gear lvl you should have it back in seconds of pressing it. I get it back in 3 on a 417 rogue.

As well this is only true in a pve setting not a pvp one.

Stop, no other words needs to be spoken here.

When you have 3 dps specs numbers combined making up the next 7 dps specs (as of the last time I counted 2 weeks ago)
And 2 healer specs being more in numbers than the rest. There is clearly an issue.

You dont see a problem because as one of the vastly overtuned specs you are benefiting from it.

Yeah get good by playing an overtuned spec. Is pretty much your answer. Let’s all just play the same specs.

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Except when you heal as a dk (and if you cant squat on anything but* a druid as a dk in current climate then you might just be bad) you are spending runic power to generate runes back to then gain back runic power.
As unholy death coil isnt even main pressure in pvp its necro, which is from runes so it doesnt matter what you are spending the power on.

Ret 4 cast and they are oom and maybe they got 30% out of that which is roughly 6 secs of casting.

Edit* a letter

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But this is the Battlegrounds forum not the Arena forum, Mala. :wink:

The issue is DPS self-healing when backed up a healer, which happens in arena but often doesn’t happen in random BGs unless there is a preform.

Possible solutions:

  1. Remove pure healers from the game and rebalance. :wink:
  2. Seperate arena pvp and non-arena pvp even more by disabling or nerfing DPS self-heals in arena, or forcing the self-heals into talent choices and making people choose self-sustain over damage output. I bet most arena players would choose damage over self-sustain since they have a healer.

I’m pretty sure you posted somewhere that you think that all specs should have a build that is solo viable didn’t you?

I said all classes should have at least 1 dps spec that is viable for 1v1 like it had in mop and sort of in wod.
But that is basically a distinction without a difference

No this is a bad way to present this arguement. If it can happen you work under the assumption it will when you are working in theory or don’t theorize at all.

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Assassination rogue can dot kite them to death, use evasion for when they have full runic power in case of a pull. Classic hunter fight. You use your CC to kite. Save disengage for pull. Use turtle if they are on you with enough runic power to spam deathstrike.

Stationary casters are at a disadvantage but every melee can sit on top of them. :wink:

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Except Mages who will get away and Warlocks who don’t care … 2 pure DPS specs :sweat_smile:

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Well, 80% of the bgs that I do I don’t get any outside heals but I should pretend that I do because sometimes it happens. :wink:

I mean, it wouldn’t kill me to take away self-heals from all pure DPS. I’d just play one of the hybrid DPS classes that I like playing.

There is absolutely no way I would soloqueue BGs on an arms warrior at the moment. Kind of makes me sad because I really enjoyed playing arms warrior in Legion when they were solo viable.

I really don’t consider arcane mage to be stationary. That is a choice, not a necessity. Also blink.

I consider shadowpriest and warlock to be stationary. Good luck trying to catch up to a shaman in ghost wolf on a DK, btw.

Then you spam chains and kite them or stun evasion.

Dks have more than just pull to stay on a target.

But I shouldn’t have to teach you as well

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It is actually true, but only with frost, not a problem for unholy

I guess my trinket is down from a previous fight. Or in the case of battlegrounds, both my trinket and free action potion are down from previous fights. :wink:

Classes like DK are strong but they don’t become an actual Issue (with a capital I) unless they are being backed by a healer. They have counterplay in the open world by themselves.

I can render two clips of my MM hunter in the process of winning fights against a rank 1 DK in strands (Legion) if you would like. Neither made it into movies, because another DK added from behind preventing the first kill and the match ended before I could score the kill in the second fight.

CC to counter and gain distance when they are getting close. Disengage after pull (if possible - big difference in this fight if it starts at range or they start on top of you). Turtle to prevent heals when no other option. I was lone wolf though, so no pet to heal off.