this is why I hate GD so much.
a lie? I had 23 max level toons and multiple 2400 toons. a lie? really? I already mentioned this elsewhere in the thread. you got 1k conquest added to your cap each week. AS i ALREADY SAID, you could come back to the game after 10 weeks and have 10k of conquest to cap. This was enough to get you more then half a set of gear.
typical gd garbage.
Sorry but it’s not 
You’re joking right? Cause the only thing stopping me from pvping is the insane amount of pve I have to do for bis crap like claw/bike/vodoo/drest/vc
Again you’re joking right? You had two sets. Two. And that was only if you wanted to be competitive. You could easily hop into the opposite form of content casually and do just fine. Guess what? That’s exactly the same as now. Most specs have different azerite/stat and essence load outs for PvP to pve. So you still need two armour sets 
thanks to corruptions I have 3. I have more crap in my bags than ever before.
PvP wise it was. WOD the pve pop died because they didn’t release any content. PvP stayed healthy to the end. Legion, a fine expansion pve wise, had less pvpers. Which means proportionally the end of the split killed PvP.
Heavy impact? The only really busted items were legendaries and maybe an occasional trinket. Literally everything from pve has been busted all expac. Again drest/bike/vodoo/geti/lash of the void/tank trinkets/crucible gear. Pve gear has never been so out of hand. Yes pve gear did fine under the split but you made a trade off in the fact you weren’t as tanky.
Just kinda funny how you say you needed two sets of gear though but your pve gear was op then too? Can’t have it both ways. The split let pve gear do just fine, it just wasn’t bis in ever slot.
What are you even talking about. You can more easily target your high level vers by running m+.
Yeah one azerite and one trinket (if that) while all the top 100 pvpers have 80% or more pve gear. Seems comparable. Kinda funny how you also have zilch pvp gear on. Your bias is showing
There would not be. PvP gear doesn’t provide insane benefits like the pve gear does. There are no dumb procs or busted on use effects. There is no reason for pvers to PvP for pve. The same is not true in reverse.
You still need multiple sets if you’re doing things competitively. I’m rocking a different corruption load out for m+ and raiding. If gear was gear you’d have a single PvP item on
Oh it’s perfect for pvers. We know.
Did say : at the same pace 
Need 4x three chesting M+ to get a +11 , 460 ilvl should drop from an easy to achieve rating to be at the same pace . Shouldve elaborated more into it , my bad!
I kinda miss having Resilience. Unfortunately the non-pvp crowd whined for the longest time.
So essentially you are saying that, because you focus on pve, you shouldn’t have to put in any effort to compete in pvp? That’s what we call a double standard, you can’t seriously think it’s fair for you to just jump into competitive pvp when pvpers have to do exactly the same thing if they want to pve, you gear for your aspect of the game, if you want to change lanes you should have to put in effort to get gear that is good for that aspect, this is the issue we are facing and that Ion is facilitating, pvpers get the short end of the stick but pve players can do any part of the game with no consequence. And the issue with that is that pvp no longer gives the best gear for pvp, you have to be push M+ 15s, running 5 mask visions, mythic raids, farming essences and corruptions, all this pve content, to pvp. Otherwise you get shafted if you only pvp, not even mentioning trying to play multiple toons
why the snide response? I really don’t understand. I focus on pve? I have been 2400 on my hunter and shaman. Been 2200 on my mage, warrior, druid, and priest. I focus on pve? Really?
The responses here just blow my mind.
Really?
You realize people who have done both types of content are typically the ones that excel the most right? The point here is ACCEPTING the fact PvE impacts PvP and instead balance around it.
To that, it opens up oppurtunity for PvE players to try PvP and vice versa. It’s an RPG. Lots and LOTS of rpgs have had PvP… and you only had one set of gear for either. Why does wow need to be different? This a joke?
PvP has never given the best gear for PvP… and honestly, it doesn’t have to. What it needs to provide is equivalent level of gear, which it has in the past.
The issue now is that gear from M+ and raiding is substantially easier to obtain then PvP gear and is often itemized better. They could easily fix that, but they didn’t.
That is speaking on a historical level. Holy… bunch of Karens on these forums.
Thew point is the opposite has been true before. That is the whole point of the thread. Do we need PvP stats? I’m saying that when those things WERE a thing, they weren’t good for PvP participation.
Only if you wanted to be competitive…? What?
I love these garbage statements. Who does PvP not to be competitive? “Oh, I just want to PvP and lose all day…”
Seriously? When resil was a thing, it was still very important to progression. Even if it was a flawed stat, you needed it to push rating.
man. you just want to argue. I was 2400 in multiple expansions and you were? you were what again?
The weapons and trinkets were the items that mattered outside of your offset pieces. You still had 9-10+ other items that were specific to either PvE of PvP while your trinkets and weapons could be used in either.
Did I say you couldn’t?
My bias? Please get even some of the experience I have then you can cry about bias all you want.
Of course I have zilch on this toon, It’s for PvE. I PvP on my hunter and priest.
dumb dumb. It’s about stat priorities. The issue is getting 475 pieces out of PvP is SUBSTANTIALLY harder then getting it from M+ or Mythic Raids. Gear is gear is gear. Stats are stats. Ilvl is ilvl. The problem is getting any gear from PvP is 100x harder then getting it from PvE.
Is there inherently a problem with this? Someone who plays all facets of the game at a high level shouldn’t just acquire stuff that can only benefit them in a single facet of the game.
if someone is raiding mythic and heroic and they are doing +20 or higher mythic+ keys and they’re 2k+ rated in PVP and they show up in my battleground, I expect them to be using a little bit of each to melt my face.
This happened recently with a DH that was absolutely melting me in a BG, I looked him up and his gear, overall, made me jealous and it was from a mix of all content.
Maybe we are tired of you spewing bs? Historically speaking there was no barrier. A pvper could hop in, PvP and earn rewards. A pver could enter and do just fine. The barrier has never been bigger as now I have to grind my pve essences (still don’t have vc), grind my pve cloak, grind my pve gear. I’ve never done so little PvP.
What are you even talking about? PvP participation was extremely healthy when there was a split. As has been pointed out multiple times. WOD and mop had extremely healthy PvP populations. You know what’s not healthy for PvP? The amount of pve we have to do in the last two expansions.
Lol dude, just lol. If you want to push now you still need two sets. If you just wanted to try PvP out casually there was no barrier of entry before either. Man you’re double talk is hilarious. You contradict yourself all the time 
“oh pve gear has always been important” “oh pve gear wasn’t any good and you needed resilience”. Just lol.
Lol just lol dude… You still PvP on that character. Gear is gear right? Sure it is, when it’s pve gear
I’d wager they’re still 80% pve geared. Soooo you’re pve toon is only pve geared and your PvP too s are 80% pve geared. Sounds like gear is gear alright
And it’s always going to be unless there is a split because heaven forbid a Pveer feels the need to PvP. You’ve seen the threads about blood of the enemy? A miniscule grind compared to any pve we’ve had to do?
Splitting it is the only way pvpers don’t get the shaft. Seriously man we get your desire to keep pve gear op.
Spewing BS? Been doing arena since wrath on multiple toons. I love arguing with someone’s under geared alt. Maybe post on something relevant?
There absolutely was a barrier. Getting a full set of PvP gear prior to WoD was tough if you didn’t play from the start of each seasons. This was especially true in wrath and cata. There was no catch up system and the PvP gear was essential for pushing arena or rbgs.
You probably don’t know because you probably didn’t play. If you did, then you weren’t playing at a level that mattered anyways.
I didn’t say that participation was bad. I said they were bad for participation. I had 3 toons at 2400 in MoP and did a ton of pick up games with people from trade. PvP power restricted play. That’s all there is to it. Quit trying to complicate this.
Did I say what we have no is good? I have been saying the opposite the entire thread.
I’m not contradicting myself. Just because you aren’t willing to read everything I type, don’t blame me.
The two statements aren’t at odds with each other. PvE gear has always been important. (Weapons & Trinkets). PvP gear (rings, belt, boots, etc) were crucial for building pvp specific stats.
It’s almost like I already said that…
what are you even talking about?
It’s like you want to isolate one thing and completely take it out of context then argue with yourself about it. Are you nuts?
I keep saying that getting PvP gear right now much harder to get. That doesn’t mean the gear itself is bad. That’s the problem. If I can get better gear from doing PvE compared to PvP, of course I’m going to use that gear. If I was sitting at 2400, I’d likely be using more gear from there. I’m not 2400 on this toon, so it only makes sense I’m going to use the best gear I can from the other content I do.
Spoken like someone who plays the game at the absolute minimum and wants to come on GD and argue about it. Post on something that’s relevant.
My desire to keep PvE gear op? This doesn’t even make sense. I have been arguing the opposite. I have been arguing for better balance. This is the kind of response I expect from GD alts that aren’t even doing current content.
Funny thing to resort to if you cared enough to look that I haven’t played this guy you could see that I’ve been pvping for a long time as well.
There was no barrier in the sense that I logged in and started pvping and got PvP rewards. The barrier now is go do your mandatory m+, go get your claw and drest trinkets. The pve barrier is way larger now.
The barrier for pvers now is smaller sure. The barrier for PvPers is at an all time high. So how is having bigger barriers for the people that actually want to PvP a better thing?
Lol classic double talk… If participation wasn’t bad how was it bad for participation. Participation was great and therefore it was good for PvP participation. If nobody pvpd those expansions I’d tend to believe you, but that’s not the case.
You did and then you say there were barriers of entry for pvers to get into PvP? It’s literally contradictory. Pvers could hop in and do just fine without pvpers getting wrecked because their gear was suboptimal for their own content.
It literally is man. Get a 475 PvP weapon? Still a lot worse than a 475 geti, fist of raden. Get a 475 tank trinket? Still worse than any pve tank trinket. Abundance and ease of high ilvl gear is only part of the problem. Insane stupid pve stuff that blizzard doesn’t balance is just as much part of the problem.
Again with the hilarious lack of argument and resorting to personal attacks. Pve gear has been insane all expac and will continue to be unless there is a split. Pve gear with continue to have busted procs/on uses that we have to get.
Lol you’re argument for balance is a joke that leads to keeping pve gear king.
If you have no problem playing to 2400 why do you have an issue pvping for PvP gear? If PvP participation was fine under the split why not have PvP gear? Maybe this crazy idea that if you want to PvP and PvP gear is good for PvP then you might participate in PvP. CRAZY IDEAS 
This is the kind of response I expect from a pver.
Pvp talents are actually bad for pvp. It gave the pve deves free reign to completely slaughter butcher and destroy any remains of class design and finally after how many years gave them free reign to prune and remove whatever they wanted for the sake of PvE. No longer were the pvp devs able to influence class design because ‘Pvp talents would fix it.’
Obviously, this backfired. We only get 3 pvp talents for ??? countless abilites removed.
Ion said no, so you’ll have to level a character for TBC Classic if you want PvP gear to be a thing.
yes, this is very apparent.
not arguing with someone who can’t even accept simple facts. There was obviously a barrier for PvP gear… it was called a weekly cap. Are you really going to argue that was a barrier?
We really going there?
it’s not double talk just because you don’t understand it.
there is no contradiction beyond the one you keep trying to create.
stats are stats. ilvl is ilvl. keep arguing with yourself.
I never said those items weren’t broken. i never said PvE gear wasn’t good. I only said that PvP gear isn’t bad relative to stats.
Resorting to personal attacks? You already attacked me. Don’t go crying when the favor is returned.
wouldn’t you have to get even half the pvp achievements I have before you say that?
GD is a weird place.
It’s the literal definition of double talk. Keep pretending it’s not
I never said stats weren’t stats and ilvl wasn’t ilvl. What I said is busted af procs and uses from pve will continue to be busted and the only choice to use because there is no PvP stat to make it worth not taking. Which means PvP gear will be bad regardless of ilvl and stat.
Pve gear will continue to be king. Which is what you’re basically arguing for.
You take that much offense to being called a pver? Makes sense, they tend to be super entitled and think their gear should be the best.
Meh, you clearly don’t PvP much this expansion. Just because you pvpd once upon a time doesn’t mean you’re currently a pvper.
So you don’t really participate… Makes sense… Lol
The issue is not having a ‘special stat’. I hated when resilience was a thing - it made gear outside of PvP useless.
What we need is more gear options. Why is it that only raid / mythic gear has special procs? Our weapons should have a choice of this as well.
We should have more Unique Trinkets, set bonuses, etc. The issue is itemization not stats. The other issue is also the rate of which you get gear and how useful that gear is when you get it.
Because getting decent gear is such an issue through PvP you need to acquire it outside of PvP. Once you do this you can get higher rating and then obtain gear through PvP.
But it was so much more dynamic when PVE wasn’t king …lets share the fun again
Idk, I liked resilience… most fun I’ve had PvPing.
I will use MoP as an example: it had good pvp and pve participation.
I have all pvp gear and could do things in the world and lfr if I wanted. If I wanted to do high level pve, I would have to do pve stuff.
The PvP stat was a good thing in MoP. Should be good for SL in some form.
Do you agree that the trinket set bonus for pvp was a good thing?
What do you think about using conquest points or similar to buy PvP power enchants for multiple pieces of gear, that are only active in instanced pvp?
Absolutely everything you have said is wrong, when pvp specific gear with stats or something similar (wod) were in place pvp participation was at its highest and people enjoyed it, people hate how the gearing has worked for bfa and legion. And pve gear never beat out pvp gear when there were pvp stats, maybe a couple trinkets throughout those 7 years, and some legendary items, but that is not pve gear always beating out pvp gear in pvp content, like seriously, the only reasons anyone likes the current system is because they are either a) lazy, or b) don’t want to have to pvp for pvp gear because they don’t like losing to people who put in effort to gear for their preferred aspect of the game, which is pvp